In a heated debate! Atheist in need of some back up!

Neoatheist · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:18 am Post subject:

To be honest, I completely agree with you Buck, but something tells me that Specter wants to just drop it. Again, I think you both agree, but maybe you both just have too much pride to concede the point. It is an important distinction to be made and you have effectively made it.

My thoughts:
The values that the founding documents were based on were universal values and to call them Christian values is to fundamentally misunderstand the issue. Those with this idea likely stick to their guns based upon ignorance, wishful thinking, or intellectual dishonesty. These are not admirable attributes in anyone.
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If you use the bible as your moral compass, chances are you're lost.

Buckster · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:38 am Post subject:

Kirigakure · Visitor Joined: 08 Feb 2010 Posts: 5 Local time: 7:35 AM

So the argument has drifted to the subject of "the majority of Americans believe in God".

My reply:

"Since when did the commonly held belief have anything to do with the truth? From the earth being flat to the belief that sickness was demonic possession, as humans have evolved we have found over and over again that the commonly held beliefs were nothing more than idealistic placebos to calm the masses. Also, Pen St. did a study the revealed an inverse relationship between IQ and belief in God. none of this is to say who is right necessarily, I am simply stating that the argument that it's true because most people believe it's true is bunk."

His immediate retort:

"Just as a Counter Point, Perhaps there were forms of Bias Taking place in the Pen State Study... Either a Confirmation Bias that caused them to create degrees of Belief and allow agnostics and deists to fall under the atheist banner... Or a Sampling Bias which sought out atheists from Acedemia and Persons with religious belief from the Wal-Mart Parking Lot?

It is all statistics and it can all be altered by the parameters and sampling.

of Course IMO Pagans, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Zoarastrians, Rastafarians, Agnostics, Deists and polytheists are all One the same side of of the Fence when it comes to the Atheist Vs Theist Debate. Belief In Ghosts? Can't be an Atheist, Belief in an Afterlife? Belief in a Creative Power in the universe? Belief in Karma? Belief in Evil or Good? All of those are concepts Rooted in Spirituality...

So With My Criteria Of Absolute Atheism They are a serious minority. Sure, you have plenty of Agnostics and Pissed off Neo Pagans all Jumping in Line to Chill With the Atheists, Mostly becuase they are going through some Period of Rebellion against their parents or Mainstream society and they feel siding with atheism is a way to lash out at the Christian Right.... who they technically have more in common with than they do with the Absolute atheist.

Not to mention the Sad State of affairs most Atheists and Spiritualists find themselves in when it comes to the concepts of Rights and Liberty... as the Spiritualists Claim their Rights and freedom are gifts from or dictated to them through divine Force, The Majority of Atheists Seem to seek Secular Powers to Grant them their Rights and Freedom through Writ of law... Sad Honestly, none of them seem to believe in their own inner Will To Power. They are all Weak Sniveling beasts begging something higher than themselves to allow them to live... Whether it is God, Karma, the collective consensus of humanity or the iron fist of a dictator such as famous Atheist Adolf Hitler Or Josef Stalin... They cannot seem to exist without worshiping this higher power."

I could use a little help with a reply to this one. It appears the he keeps coming back to this concept that "rights and liberty" cannot be had without some sort of higher power belief system in place.

Squirmy Wormy · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:54 am Post subject:

kirigacure. There is no winning this debate, not because you are wrong, but because he is incredibly illogical and closed minded.

Atheism is not "rebellion" it is realization that society is fundamentally wrong. In the same sense that losing your belief in santa clause isn't rebellion. its just a coming to your senses.

Also explain to him that atheists don't need dictators to tell them what to do. in fact, most atheists tend to be 10000x more reluctant to blindly follow than theists are. hence why they quit religion in the first place.

Also explain to him that adolf hitler was a christian. Stalin was an atheist, but he was also really mentally screwed up as well.

Also ask him if people can have true rights and liberties if they have to follow the 10 commandments, specifically the first 3 or 4.

And being a part of a minority isn't wrong at all. Just show him again that the majority is generally retarted.
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SecularRealist · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:55 am Post subject:

Squirmy Wormy · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:28 am Post subject:

yeah sorry about that. i am tired, its late. I meant to say "religion is fundamentally wrong".

there ya go.
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superunknown

Neoatheist · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:30 am Post subject:

Debates are not completely pointless. Of course the fundie that you are debating will likely gtet his ass handed to him and still walk out of their claiming victory. That is afterall the extent of his bias. I think that debates are good stuff for letting those watching see the error in the other guys argument. I would not expect him to walk out of there conceding your point, but those watching without the extreme bias will see your arguments as being much more logical and based in fact as opposed to speculation. In other words, your not targeting him, but rather those fence sitters that may be watching the whole thing unfold.
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If you use the bible as your moral compass, chances are you're lost.

romans120 · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:50 am Post subject:

Neoatheist · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:59 am Post subject:

What we would now call Secular Humanism.
_________________
If you use the bible as your moral compass, chances are you're lost.

romans120 · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:30 am Post subject:

Neoatheist · Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:22 am Post subject:

Both the secular and humanist nature of the constitution.
_________________
If you use the bible as your moral compass, chances are you're lost.

Aupmanyav

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