I always hear this from religious people

JCMac

That religion is not responsible for the bad things that are blamed on it, like war, murder, genocide and so on.

I agree, if they are willing to accept that religion is also not responsible for the good things that are credited to it.

Any thoughts?
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rickcopeland648 · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:31 am Post subject:

The Rick Copeland does. He wonders if most conflicts are actually over territory, resources, or geopolitical strategy but disguised as religious in nature because it makes people more malleable to manipulation... It is a wonderful propaganda tool.... The Rick Copeland still thinks of "Jerry" Boykin and the evangelical overtones he casts on the "war on terror"

But The Rick Copeland thinks he agrees with your central notion: That if religion does not get any blame attached to it it is equally unworthy of the praise...
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SalsaShark · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:53 am Post subject:

I disagree with The Rick Copeland in that I think many conflicts over territory, resources, or geopolitical strategy are disguised as that and in fact a war on other religions (Iraq - I think Bush is just an ignorant racist). But if they don't want to take credit for the crusades, well they ain't getting any credit for their community fundraisers either.
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josephpalazzo · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject:

People are responsible for their actions, not religion or starched laundry...

my two cents.

Paranoia21 · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject:

Well, I would say it's human nature to disagree with people of different religions. And sometimes, that disagreement can boil over into conflict. I think a lot of wars have been cause by religion, but some, like The Rick Copeland said, are used as tools of propaganda to make the losing side look alomst demonic.
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lumpymunk · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject:

I would rephrase that, and say it's human nature to disagree with things its taught to disagree with.
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Chaoslord2004 · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject:

lumpymunk · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject:

Isambard · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject:

Agreed. Saying religion is the cause for wars (and the only attributing factor) is the same arguement as love, politics, emotions, economy, property etc

War is innevitable for such a silly ape-species. Everything else is merely an excuse
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hillbillyatheist · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject:

Nimitz · Guest Local time: 1:29 PM

I agree with The Ricky Copeland. The battle cry of "God is on our side." is just an excuse to go grab titties you've never grabbed before!

kmisho · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject:

I think all comments up to this point are partly right. Wars are usually fought for booty of some kind. But religion can't just be an excuse to take booty. If that were so then we would have to agree that no one actually believes it. Unfortunately lots of people actually do believe it. So booty and ideology are mixed together. And those who actually lead and start wars, who are rarely those who actually fight them, find ideology and the promise of booty, excellent exploitive tools to convince the grunts who actually do fight the wars to fight them.
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Chaoslord2004 · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject:

C'mon people, read your Sam Harris. How can Christianity NOT be the cause of wars, injustices' and various other deplorable acts, when their holy books order them to commit these acts? The bible, in the New Testament gives justification for owning slaves. Moreover, if you honestly believe that there is a real place called Hell, and anyone who is not of your particular faith will go there, how is it possible for you to respect their beliefs? I mean, if a friend is going to commit suicide, won't you try and stop them? Isn't hell infinitely worse than suicide? Moreover, isn't an atheist worse than a pedophile given what Christians and Muslims believe? A pedophile will hurt your children, but only for a finite amount of time. An atheist might convince a child to give up belief in God, thus damning them to hell. Furthermore, why not bomb an abortion clinic? Arn't you saving lives? How is this any different than assassinating a terrorist?

Do most people who claim to be Christians think like this? Of course not, but I would argue that most alleged Christians, are not really Christians. The kind of behavior we see in most people claiming to be Christian is the opposite of what we would expect from genuine Christians. What we see, is that most people believe in belief in God. Most people think Religion is a good thing, faith is a virtue and belief in God is something to be striven for. Hence, while they themselves don't believe in God, they view it as a good thing. I am not the only one who argues this, Dan Dennett does as well. Take one example, would you masturbate in front of your father? Of course not...so why do 90% of man claim to masturbate if the majority of men are theists? They are masturbating in front of God. Why would they do this? On the same token, these same people also will get very mad if you are harsh on religion or critique theistic belief. All this is indicative of belief in belief in God, not genuine belief in God.
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Isambard · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject:

Hey genius, there have been atheist related dictators, genocides, wars as well. Anyone remember Stalin?

Face it, a god (especially Yawah variant) is a collection of abstract values. The Stalinist and Maoist propaganda followed a similar ideal, do something for X because X demands it!
Weather it be for God, for Islam, for Zeus, for a marxist paradise, for capitolism etc it doesnt matter.

At its core its just different forms of similar ideologies with different dimensions.

So then pinning religion as the problem is retarded as the exact same methodogy for justifying violent actions, manifest destiny, or even genocide are found in secular tradition in different forms
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