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PJS

Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 937 Local time: 6:08 PM Location: Clearwater,Fl.
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Just saw the other day a film in which a group of monkeys attacked another group. There was very little to do with survival. The first group of monkeys could have easily picked other fig trees to eat. They quietyly surrounded the second group, and on a signal from their leaders, using surprise as an element, jumped on the second group. They killed a child and a mother, and one more before calm was restored. That scene was savaged, and I don't think any kind of ideology was in the motivation.
I believe even if one would subtract religion from the equation, humans would go to war on other pretexts. Religion is just a tool, and like any tool, can be used to justify any form of violence. If religion errs, it is on the side of what is the truth. But as far as our violent impulse, it has very little to do with it, except leaders have used it to consolidate or increase their power. |
Ideology is clearly not necessary for violence on a relatively small scale. It often does, however, fuel large scale killing. When people buy into the sort of idealism where the ends justify the means and the "other" is defined as pure evil, atrocities follow. These ideologies need not be religious as Stalin demonstrated. _________________ The path of least resistance and least trouble is a mental rut already made. It requires troublesome work to undertake the alternation of old beliefs.
-John Dewey |
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anamoly Recess Monitor

Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 682 Local time: 6:08 PM
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | anamoly wrote: | | Chaoslord2004 wrote: |
| anamoly wrote: | | Please note for future reference that assuming things make you look like a bigger ass than you probably are....Maybe you are this big of an asshole because all that BS haughty smarter-than-chaoslord snide remarks you've been making only make you sound like a jackass because your arguments are ill-contrived and even *I* can see right through them. |
The ignorant always make the most noise... |
Hang on a second *grabs megaphone*
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?!
Hahahahaa...hehehe  |
I hope you realize I wasn't talking about you. |
Oh i know but isambard wouldn't take the oppurtunity to poke fun at himself so I thought I would  _________________ I is dsylexic.
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Just because I don't put my life story in my signature, doesn't make me uninteresting....I'd like to think I'm mysterious. |
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Moloth Coin Operated Boy

Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 23071 Local time: 6:08 PM Location: Warner Robins, GA

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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| PJS wrote: | | Quote: | Just saw the other day a film in which a group of monkeys attacked another group. There was very little to do with survival. The first group of monkeys could have easily picked other fig trees to eat. They quietyly surrounded the second group, and on a signal from their leaders, using surprise as an element, jumped on the second group. They killed a child and a mother, and one more before calm was restored. That scene was savaged, and I don't think any kind of ideology was in the motivation.
I believe even if one would subtract religion from the equation, humans would go to war on other pretexts. Religion is just a tool, and like any tool, can be used to justify any form of violence. If religion errs, it is on the side of what is the truth. But as far as our violent impulse, it has very little to do with it, except leaders have used it to consolidate or increase their power. |
Ideology is clearly not necessary for violence on a relatively small scale. It often does, however, fuel large scale killing. When people buy into the sort of idealism where the ends justify the means and the "other" is defined as pure evil, atrocities follow. These ideologies need not be religious as Stalin demonstrated. |
when a man murders his wife's lover in his bedroom, religion, or lack thereof, plays little to no part.
To organize whole nations of people to hate, to slander and to kill others takes an incredibly strong ethos. Communism has been used, true... but HOW many times compared to religion? _________________ -=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Sal1981 Do you hear me now?

Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 2799 Local time: 11:08 PM Location: Behind the computer

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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | ... it seems like in the absence of dialogue, violence will ensue. |
That's probably true for a great deal of convictions, not just religious ones.
If an ideology is so weak that it cannot suffer the existence of other ones around, it's bound to result into conflict. _________________ "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman
"Why not just make your null hypothesis be that..." - Philosophos |
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anamoly Recess Monitor

Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 682 Local time: 6:08 PM
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Isambard wrote: |
I ask you, if religious folk are inherently more violent, what about the Amish community? Id say they are very conservative and fundamentalist to a degree, yet are completly passific. Hell, looking at early christian communities, they were the same. |
Okay, I said they were inherently violent NOT MORE. Quit adding words and actually pay attention to what I'm saying. Now that you're adding words, what did *I* presumably say religious folk was more violent than? secularists? I never said that. Now stop adding ideas and words to my fucking comments, mac.
I said "Religion is inherently violent." That doesn't mean anything other than "Religion is inherently violent."
I'm going to use an example of an actual conversation.
David: Okay what about the 10 commandments. It says, "Thou shalt not kill." So it's not alright for a person in self-defense to kill their attacker.
Mike: OH yeah it's fine...it means "thou shalt not kill unless someone is attacking you.
David: NOoooo....it says "Thou shalt not kill" period.
Mike: But the person is being attacked, they should defend themselves.
David: Yeah, but they can't kill him.
Mike: Yeah they can.
David: NO. "Thou shalt not kill" End of story.
When I said religion is inherently violent, it means just that. I didn't say more and less violent than whatever you thought I was saying (secular ideology, maybe? I don't know, but I can't follow a conversation if you're making up what I'm saying, if you are going to do that...at least hand me a script so i can actually say it myself or decline the option to be in a 'debate' with you.
that said, Amish people are not violent and yes are very *pacifistic* but it's not the folks that are violent, i said their religion is. they still follow the Bible which is violent:
| Isambard wrote: |
As mentioned before, the OT is waaay more violent than the NT yet youall seem to be hesitant to portraying Jews as nasty relative to christians. |
Because I think that it's worse to pick a lesser of two evils. And Christians, followers of Christ, not as nasty? Um...Spanish Inquisition? The Crusades? Witch Trials of Salem? (That was terrorism there) Abortion bombers? Televangilecals?
I could give you examples of how each religion has done some nasty violent things. But you're trying to defend Christianity as the lesser of two evils (Christianity and the rest of the religions). As an atheist I'm not going to choose a religion to be better than the other when they are all capable of and have done atrocious actions. No, I do not find that Christians are less nasty or much nicer than Jews or Muslims or Hindus.
If you're basing it on just the OT and the NT, blah blah, yeah the Jews are mean and vicious in there than the lovely Christians in the Christian Bible....Hmmm... You ever wonder about that? Why Christians are portrayed in such a much more peaceful light than the Jews of the OT? WAKE UP MATE! It's all politics and it's all about good lighting. Christians want the Jews to go away and what better way than some bad PR? Jackass, come on! The OT is hardly factual but what the Christians have done is real (Crusades, Inquisition, etc) and are still in the minds and in textbooks as fact. So comparing OT Jews to Christian real life actions proves that Chrisitans are nastier (if you want some to prove one religion is nastier than the other) because Christians have done nasty things whereas Jews didn't do anything because all those stories in the OT have hardly any evidence of actually happening.
| Isambard wrote: | | I would agree that christians have amuch nasty history even given their almost altruistic ideology. |
hahahahahhaha okay okay....You think that the Christian 'ideology' is almost altruistic but you admit to their nasty history? WTF mate? Religions is inherently violent because all those people can get together under one idea and then do whatever their leader tells them.
1 Peter 2
"18Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh"
Slavery is okay in the book of Peter. In fact, slaves should always submit to their masters. Because the mercy of God says you need to tough it out.
So if the Christian religion is only based on the NT why do they even bother with the OT? Um...cause they believe in that too? *shakes* head....you forget that Christians believe in that part too. Comparing OT and NT is like comparing New Coke to Classic Coke, same damn company. Christians believe in the crap too..... _________________ I is dsylexic.
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Just because I don't put my life story in my signature, doesn't make me uninteresting....I'd like to think I'm mysterious. |
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Isambard Forum Leader


Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 892 Local time: 6:08 PM Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| anamoly wrote: | Okay, I said they were inherently violent NOT MORE. Quit adding words and actually pay attention to what I'm saying. Now that you're adding words, what did *I* presumably say religious folk was more violent than? secularists? I never said that. Now stop adding ideas and words to my fucking comments, mac.
I said "Religion is inherently violent." That doesn't mean anything other than "Religion is inherently violent."
I'm going to use an example of an actual conversation.
David: Okay what about the 10 commandments. It says, "Thou shalt not kill." So it's not alright for a person in self-defense to kill their attacker.
Mike: OH yeah it's fine...it means "thou shalt not kill unless someone is attacking you.
David: NOoooo....it says "Thou shalt not kill" period.
Mike: But the person is being attacked, they should defend themselves.
David: Yeah, but they can't kill him.
Mike: Yeah they can.
David: NO. "Thou shalt not kill" End of story.
When I said religion is inherently violent, it means just that. I didn't say more and less violent than whatever you thought I was saying (secular ideology, maybe? I don't know, but I can't follow a conversation if you're making up what I'm saying, if you are going to do that...at least hand me a script so i can actually say it myself or decline the option to be in a 'debate' with you.
that said, Amish people are not violent and yes are very *pacifistic* but it's not the folks that are violent, i said their religion is. they still follow the Bible which is violent:
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If you followed the the discussion between Choaslord and I, you wouldve seen that my pt was addressed to him and his line of thinking. He implied that Christians and Muslims are inherently mroe violent in his first post.
My retort was that although on paper a religion maybe violent, it does not correlate with actions of the followers. taht is why I brought up Hindus and Jews because if his assumption is correct then that would mean they would have to have a much more violent history relative to christians and muslims.
| anamoly wrote: | Because I think that it's worse to pick a lesser of two evils. And Christians, followers of Christ, not as nasty? Um...Spanish Inquisition? The Crusades? Witch Trials of Salem? (That was terrorism there) Abortion bombers? Televangilecals?
I could give you examples of how each religion has done some nasty violent things. But you're trying to defend Christianity as the lesser of two evils (Christianity and the rest of the religions). As an atheist I'm not going to choose a religion to be better than the other when they are all capable of and have done atrocious actions. No, I do not find that Christians are less nasty or much nicer than Jews or Muslims or Hindus.
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Your 'examples' are in the same league as atheistic acts of terror, by this I mean some rather unpleasant actions taken despite lacking a religious cause.
To highlight my pt, there are eco-terrorists, race-related violence, politics, nationalism etc.
My response to all this is that ideology is to blame not necessarily religion. Religion is a part of an ideology but not the sum of it. Whenever an ideology is stretched beyond its basic parameters you get some 'creative' solutions that may be in conflict with the original codes of conduct or moral structure of the original.
Some of these would include fundamentalist christiandom in the US spewing forth biblical quotations while 'judging others' (im being polite in regards to their actions) which contradict one another.
Same can be found for promoters of the American Corporate model of capitolism, quoting Adam Smith for more corporate rights despite the fact that Smith was adament about surpressing monopolies, movement of capital, keeping capitol and workers local etc.
| anamoly wrote: | If you're basing it on just the OT and the NT, blah blah, yeah the Jews are mean and vicious in there than the lovely Christians in the Christian Bible....Hmmm... You ever wonder about that? Why Christians are portrayed in such a much more peaceful light than the Jews of the OT? WAKE UP MATE! It's all politics and it's all about good lighting. Christians want the Jews to go away and what better way than some bad PR? Jackass, come on! The OT is hardly factual but what the Christians have done is real (Crusades, Inquisition, etc) and are still in the minds and in textbooks as fact. So comparing OT Jews to Christian real life actions proves that Chrisitans are nastier (if you want some to prove one religion is nastier than the other) because Christians have done nasty things whereas Jews didn't do anything because all those stories in the OT have hardly any evidence of actually happening.
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Id say thats politics. Both actions of the religious right today and past christian aggression. Again, when original ethical model fails to deal with a modern issue, 'creative' ways are used by certain folk to make it 'apply'. This curiously always in their favor and always ageeing with a certain political agenda
| anamoly wrote: | hahahahahhaha okay okay....You think that the Christian 'ideology' is almost altruistic but you admit to their nasty history? WTF mate? Religions is inherently violent because all those people can get together under one idea and then do whatever their leader tells them.
1 Peter 2
"18Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh"
Slavery is okay in the book of Peter. In fact, slaves should always submit to their masters. Because the mercy of God says you need to tough it out.
So if the Christian religion is only based on the NT why do they even bother with the OT? Um...cause they believe in that too? *shakes* head....you forget that Christians believe in that part too. Comparing OT and NT is like comparing New Coke to Classic Coke, same damn company. Christians believe in the crap too..... |
What an interestingly ignorant post. Well to start off, I began with the distinction between whats on paper and what is actually being done (assuming you read my earlier pts). Hopefully the question is now answered.
As per your quotation of Peter, it is evident that you know little of early christian history, documents and theology. Thats ok, its really more of a niche study.
To enlighten you I guess a brief history is in order. The early christians as well as the writers of the synoptic gospels as well as some of apocrapha believed the world would end. The time frame was ooo anywhere between a couple of months or within a decade. Skim thru the gospels and youll see numerous references to the early christian mindframe of 'DOOMSDAYS TOMORROW GET READY!'. So then your passage was an attempt to get a Nash-Equilibrium. If a slave revolted, there is a good chance he/she'd do something bad (might accidently kill, injure etc) which would mean that the slave would go to hell with no chance at repentance as the end was nigh. Better than under early christian thought, to do good to everyone and do no harm because there would be no way you could sin under such a lifestyle, even accidently.
Of course this also goes back to the 'moral structure extended beyond its parameters' pt I made as the world didnt end 2000yrs ago. So you can see ppl being 'creative' by making the date ever more vague in redactions of earlier texts ie. Gospel of John.
For your last pt, I really hoped it was a joke. Anyone with a basic understanding christianity knows that christians see the OT as their past, something that no longer applies, and the NT as their official book of moral codes of behavior. So attributing nasty bits of the OT as saying it is their law is extrodinarily ignorant _________________ Composite things are like dreams. Fantasies. Bubbles. Thoughts. Like a dewdrop and a flash of lightning. A new dress and a burning tire. Waves of sand and sinking ships. The shadow of a statue, and an entry in a diary. A brain tumor and an ice cream sundae. We are thus to be recorded. |
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Moloth Coin Operated Boy

Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 23071 Local time: 6:08 PM Location: Warner Robins, GA

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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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and yet they still use the OT as it being true... 6 day creation, Adam and Eve, original sin, all that.
Sounds to me as if Christians are nonviolent IN SPITE of their religion, not because of it.
you want New Testament stuff? sure. here ya go:
#
Matthew
# Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12
# Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17
# Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30
# Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14
# Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19
# "The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12
# Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21
# Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32
# Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15
# Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21
# Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28
# Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36
# Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24
# Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50
# Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7
# Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9
# "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34
# In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13
# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
# God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51
# The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30
# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41
# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
Mark
# Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12
# Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
# Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11
# Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10
# If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38
# Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49
# Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16
Luke
# God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20
# Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9
# John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17
# Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37
# Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15
# Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5
# Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47
# According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30
# In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31
# Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27
# Jesus also believes the story about Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32
# In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27
John
# As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16
# People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36
# The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36
# Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14
# Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6
# Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66
Acts
# Peter claims that Dt.18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23
# Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10
# Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13
# Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-6
# The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23
# David was "a man after [God's] own heart." 13:22
# The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam.12:31 and 1 Chr.20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34
# Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11
Romans
# Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32
# The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9
# God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12
>1 Corinthians
# If you defile the temple of God, God will destroy you. 3:17
# Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8
# If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll will die from snake bites. 10:9
# If you murmur, you'll be destroyed by the destroyer (God). 10:10
Ephesians
# We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11
# God had his son murdered to keep himself from hurting others for things they didn't do. 1:7
# The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God. 5:2
# Those who refuse to obey will face the wrath of God. 5:6
Colossians
# God bought us with someone else's blood. 1:14
# God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20
1 Thessalonians
# God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10
2 Thessalonians
# Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9
# Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth." 2:8
# God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12
Hebrews
# God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature. 9:13-14, 22
# Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29
# God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20
James
# If you are merciless to others, God will be merciless to you. (Two wrongs make a right.) 2:13
# James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God); Paul (Rom.4:2-3) says he was justified by faith (for believing that God would order him to do such an evil act). 2:21
1 Peter
# We are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2
# "The precious blood of Christ ... was foreordained before the foundation of the world."
God planned to kill Jesus from the get-go. 1:19-20
# God drowned drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. 3:20
2 Peter
# God drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6
# God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7
# When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10
1 John
# Jesus' blood washes away human sin. 1:7
Jude
# "The Lord destroyed them that believed not. 5
Revelation
# Jesus "washed us ... with his own blood." 1:5
# Everyone on earth will wail because of Jesus. 1:7
# Jesus has "the keys of hell and death." 1:18
# Repent -- or else Jesus will fight you with the sword that sticks out of his mouth. (Like the limbless knight in Monty Python's "Holy Grail.") 2:16
# "I [Jesus] will kill her children with death." 2:23
# "Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." God created predators, pathogens, and predators for his very own pleasure. One of his favorite species is guinea worms. 4:11
# God gives someone on a white horse a bow and sends him out to conquer people. 6:2
# God gave power to someone on a red horse "to take from the earth ... that they should kill one another." 6:4
# God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth." 6:8
# The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11
# God tells his murderous angels to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of your God on their foreheads." This verse is one that Christians like to use to show God's loving concern for the environment. But the previous verse (7:2) makes it clear that it was their God-given job to "hurt the earth and the sea" just as soon as they finished their forehead marking job. 7:3
# 144,000 Jews will be going to heaven; everyone else is going to hell. 7:4
# Those that survive the great tribulation will get to wash their clothes in the blood of the lamb. 7:14
# God sends his angels to destroy a third part of all the trees, grass, sea creature, mountains, sun, moon, starts, and water. 8:7-13
# "Many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." 8:11
# The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6
# God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth, and scorpion's tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months. 9:7-10
# Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the earth's population. 9:15-19
# Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. 11:3-5
# God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6
# After God's witnesses "have finished their testimony," they are killed in a war with a beast from a bottomless pit. 11:7
# Their dead bodies lie unburied for three and a half days. People will "rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts to one another." After another three and half days God brings his witnesses back to life and they ascend into heaven. 11:8-12
# When the witnesses ascend into heaven, an earthquake kills 7000 men. This was the second woe. "The third woe cometh quickly." 11:13-14
# "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
God planned to kill Jesus before he created the world. 13:8
# Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11
# "The great winepress of the wrath of God ... was trodden ... and the blood cam out of the winepress, even unto the horses bridles." 14:19-20
# Seven angels with seven plagues are filled with the wrath of God. 15:1, 15:7
# The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3) rivers turned to blood, 4) people scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6) Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder, lightning, earthquake, and hail. 16:1-21
# God gave the saints and prophets blood to drink. 16:6
# "They shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire." (Are they going to eat her first and then burn her?) 17:16-17
# To punish her God will send plagues and famine, and "she will be utterly burned with fire." 18:8
# God will send plagues, death, and famine on Babylon, and the kings "who have committed fornication with her" will be sad to see her burn. 18:8-9
# Jesus makes war. 19:11
# With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful into holy war. 19:12-15
# "Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18
# The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21
# God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10
# Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15
# All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." _________________ -=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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anamoly Recess Monitor

Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 682 Local time: 6:08 PM
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Isambard wrote: |
For your last pt, I really hoped it was a joke. Anyone with a basic understanding christianity knows that christians see the OT as their past, something that no longer applies, and the NT as their official book of moral codes of behavior. So attributing nasty bits of the OT as saying it is their law is extrodinarily ignorant |
considering that I used to go to church and considered myself a christian and considering that my family is a bunch of Christians and after talking to them and pastors and other christians and so on, I was told by them (pastors especially) that the Bible is the infalliable word of God. You must follow it and adhere to its word. That means both OT and NT, mac. I am not ignorant considering I have first hand experience. Even on Christianity.com does it say
| Quote: | | First, we believe in the authority of Scripture, which is another way of saying that the Bible is God's inspired, infallible, and inerrant Word. It's the ultimate source for knowledge about God, as well as the definitive guide for our daily lives. |
and if you find other links about Christianity by Christian themselves... they say that the Bible is the word of God...ALL OF IT.
This leads to contradictions and blah blah blah...but what you just said basically means that you pick and choose what you want to hear and what you want to stick. and that's all I'm going to say because now you've just gone to being ignorant and I won't continue on this course because it makes me sick. You're only going to debate more and more and then pick and choose what you want to fly and what doesn't and I don't argue with fools like you.
on friendlier note, cool beans on learning to use quotes! It's easier to see what you're writing and responding to! _________________ I is dsylexic.
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Just because I don't put my life story in my signature, doesn't make me uninteresting....I'd like to think I'm mysterious. |
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Moloth Coin Operated Boy

Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 23071 Local time: 6:08 PM Location: Warner Robins, GA

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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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More feel good stuff from the New Testament..
#
Matthew
# The gospel of Matthew begins with a boring genealogy like that we are told to avoid in 1 Tim.1:4 ("Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies") and Tit.3:9 ("Avoid foolish questions and genealogies"). 1:1-17
# Judah "went in unto" his daughter-in-law, Tamar, who was disguised as a prostitute. She conceived and bore Pharez, an ancestor of Jesus. (Gen.38:2-29) 1:3
# There are 29 generations listed from David to Jesus in Matthew's genealogy, while Luke's (3:23-31) has 43. Except for David at one end and Jesus at the other, there are only three names in the two lists that are the same. 1:6-16
# John has a good point in v.14. If Jesus is the sinless Son of God, then shouldn't Jesus be baptizing John instead of the reverse? Isn't baptism supposed to forgive sins and be a sign of repentance? If so, then why would Jesus need to be baptized? And what the heck is "it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness" supposed to mean? 3:14-15
# The Son of God is led by the Spirit of God to be tempted by the devil. 4:1
# Jesus forbids the taking of any kind of oath. Yet Christians in courtrooms throughout the United States place their right hand on the Bible swear to tell the truth. 5:34-37
# Don't defend yourself in court. 5:40
# "But if thine eye be evil...." There's nothing worse than an evil eye. 6:23
# "Behold the fowls of the air...." Jesus says that God feeds them. But, if so, he does one hell of a lousy job at it. Most birds die before leaving the nest, and the few who manage to fly soon die painful deaths of starvation, predation, or disease. If God is caring for them, pray that he stays away from you. 6:26
# Ask, and it shall be given you."
Mark Twain said there are "upwards of a thousand lies" in the Bible. But this is probably the biggest. How many desperate, frightened, broken-hearted parents have watched their children die while begging God to help? 7:7-8
# The devils confess that Jesus is the Son of God. According to 1 Jn.4:15 ("Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God"), then, God dwells in the devils and the devils in God. 8:29
# After Jesus kills the herd of pigs by sending devils into them, the "whole city" asks him to leave. I don't blame them. 8:34
# "Thy faith hath made thee whole."
If you have enough faith, you will never get sick.
(Illness is caused by sin and lack of faith. Medical science is unnecessary.) 9:22
# Jesus gives his disciples "power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness." 10:1
# Jesus tells his disciples to perform all the usual tricks: "heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, and cast out devils." 10:8
# Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21
# God is involved in the death of every sparrow. He sees to it that they each die painful deaths of starvation, predation, or disease. But don't worry. God will do the same for you. (He thinks that humans are worth much more than sparrows.) 10:29. 31
# "Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." According to the gospels (Mt.26:69-75, Mk.14:66-72, Lk.22:55-62, Jn.15:18-27), Peter denied Jesus three times before men. Therefore Jesus must have denied Peter before God. 10:33
# John the Baptist is still not sure about Jesus (he's in prison and is soon to die). He sends his disciples to ask, "Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?" Well, if he isn't sure after seeing and hearing the events at Jesus' baptism, then how can anyone else be? 11:3
# John the Baptist was the greatest man ever to live (even greater than Jesus), but "he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." 11:11
# "And from the days of John the Baptist until now...." Until when? (John the Baptist was still alive when this verse was supposedly uttered.) Jesus continues to bewilder his poor disciples by saying, "The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." 11:12
# Jesus believed in the literal truth of the fish story in Jonah. 12:40
# Jesus predicts that he will be "in the heart of the earth" for three days and three nights. If by this he meant that he would be in the tomb for three days and three nights, then either he was mistaken or the gospels are in error. Because according to the gospels (this is one of the few things they all seem to agree on), Jesus was in the tomb for only one day and two nights. 12:40
# When an unclean spirit (whatever that may be) leaves a person's body, he goes out to find another. Not finding any, he comes back with seven other spirits more wicked than himself and repossesses the person. 12:43-45
# Jesus is rejected by those who know him the best -- the people of his home town of Nazareth. 13:55-57
# Herod thought Jesus was a resurrected John the Baptist. Apparently, it was a common opinion at the time (See Mt.16.13-14, Mk.6:14-15, 8:27-28, Lk.9:7-8, 18-19). If so many of Jesus' contemporaries could be so easily fooled regarding John the Baptist, what does this do to the credibility of Jesus' resurrection? 14:1-2
# "Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea."
Jesus and Peter walk on water. You can too, if you have more than a little faith. 14:25
# The disciples wonder where they will get the bread to feed four thousand. But they should know by now, since Jesus just did the same trick in 14:14-21. These stories are probably the result of two oral versions of the same fictitious story. 15:33
# Opinions were divided regarding the identity of Jesus, but many thought that he was the risen John the Baptist. The fact that people could be so easily fooled regarding the Baptist's "resurrection" casts doubt on the resurrection of Jesus. 16:14
# When Peter expressed his dismay when Jesus announced his coming death, Jesus said to him "Get thee behind me, Satan" -- a fine way to address his holiness, the first pope! 16:23
# "Whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
If you want to stay alive, you must lose your life (kill yourself?) for Jesus' sake. 16:25
# Jesus says that Elijah, whom he believes is John the Baptist, will come and "restore all things." But what things did John the Baptist restore? 17:11
# If your faith is great enough, you can move mountains around. 17:20
# Jesus tells Peter to pay his taxes with a coin that he'll find in the mouth of the first fish that he catches from the sea. 17:27
# "There be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." Dangerous words from a guy who recommends cutting of body parts if they cause you to sin (Mt.5:29-30, Mt.18:8-9, Mk.9:43-4 . It might make someone castrate himself so that he could be one of the 144,000 male virgins, who alone will make it to heaven (Rev.14:3-4). 19:12
# Jesus lists the "ten commandments," but his list has only six, and the sixth is not one of the ten. The commandments given by Jesus are secular, not religious, in nature. 19:18
# Rich people don't go to heaven. For as Jesus says, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 19:23
# Jesus tells his apostles, "ye shall sit upon the twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." I wonder which tribe Judas is judging? 19:28
# Matthew has Jesus ride into Jerusalem sitting on both an ass and a colt (must have taken some practice!). 21:2-7
# Jesus curses a fig tree and the tree dies immediately (showing the world how much God Hates Figs). But in Mark's gospel (11:14, 20-21) the cursed fig tree doesn't die until the next morning. 21:19-20
# If your faith is great enough, you can not only kill fig trees but move mountains around, too. Whatever you ask for you will receive. (O Lord, won't ya buy me a Mercedes-Benz?) 21:21-22
# If you see the abomination of desolation in the holy place, try to understand. God is trying to say something. 24:15
# "Let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Why? Can't God find and kill them there, too? 24:16
# Jesus says there will be "false Christs" that will "show great signs and wonders." Well, Jesus himself according to Acts 2:22 fits this description. 24:24
# Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 26:26-28
# "I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."
WooHoo! There will be wine to drink in heaven. 26:29
# The phrase "unto this day" shows that the gospel of Matthew was written long after the events it describes. 27:8, 28:15
# When Jesus died, "the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints" arose. But they stayed in their graves until Jesus rose from the dead, when they began to walk around, appearing to many in Jerusalem. 27:53-54
# "He is risen."
Jesus came back to life after being dead for a while. 28:6
# Even some of Jesus' apostles doubted that the allegedly risen Christ was really Jesus. Well if they weren't sure, how could we ever be? 28:17
Mark
# "Unclean spirits" confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. If 1 Jn.4:2 is true, then these "unclean spirits" are of God. 1:23-24
# Jesus rebukes the "unclean spirit" for saying that Jesus is "the holy one of God." 1:25
# Jesus casts out more devils and tells them not to reveal who he is. 1:32-34
# More "unclean spirits" confess that Jesus is "the son of God." 1 Jn.4:2 says that all such spirits are of God. 3:11
# Although the disciples weren't sure about Jesus even after his alleged resurrection, the "unclean spirits" knew that he was "the son of God." But Jesus told them not to tell anyone. 3:11-12
# Jesus gives his apostles the power to heal sickness and "cast out devils." 3:15
# Jesus' friends think he is insane. 3:21
# The scribes think that Jesus casts out devils by the power of the p rince of devils, Beelzebub. 3:22
# A man possessed with "an unclean spirit" recognizes Jesus as the son of God. According to 1 Jn.4:2, 15, this man must have been "of God." 5:7
# Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
# "Thy faith hath made thee whole." If you have enough faith, you will never get sick. (Illness is caused by sin and lack of faith. Medical science is unnecessary.) 5:34
# Jesus is rejected by those who knew him the best, the people from his home town of Nazareth. 6:3
# "And he could do there no mighty work." 6:5
# Jesus sends out his apostles, two by two, to cast out "unclean spirits." 6:7
# "And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them." 6:13
# There was much disagreement and confusion about Jesus' identity. Some thought he was Elijah or one of the prophets. And some (like Herod in this verse) thought he was the risen John the Baptist, even though John had just recently died and the people must have known what he looked like. 6:14-15
# "An evil eye ... defile the man." 7:22-23
# Jesus puts his fingers in a deaf man's ears, then spits and touches the deaf man's tongue. 7:33
# The disciples ought to know by now where they can get enough food to feed a few thousand. After all, Jesus had just done it before (6:34-44). This "doublet" was probably the result of two oral traditions of the same event. 8:4
# Jesus spits on a blind man's eyes. 8:23
# Jesus' spit did not completely cure the blind. So Jesus tried again. He put his hands on the man's eyes and, this time, the blind man "saw every man clearly." 8:24-25
# There were various opinions about the identity of Jesus. Some thought he was Elijah or one of the prophets. And many thought he was a risen John the Baptist. With credulity like that just about anyone could later be passed off as the risen Christ. 8:27-28
# "Get thee behind me, Satan." When Peter expressed his dismay about Jesus' coming death, Jesus said to him "Get thee behind me, Satan" -- a fine way to address his holiness, the first pope! 8:33
# Jesus heals a boy with "a dumb spirit" by saying, "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him and enter no more into him." (Sounds like a script from Monty Python, doesn't it?) But how could a deaf spirit hear the words spoken to it? And how could a dumb spirit cry out? 9:17, 25-26
# "All things are possible to him that believeth." 9:23
# The disciples saw some others that they didn't know "casting out devils" in Jesus' name. (It was a popular sport back in those days.) 9:38
# Immortal worms: "Where their worm dieth not" 9:44, 46, 48
# Jesus implies that he is neither good nor God. 10:18
# When Jesus lists the Ten Commandments, he only mentions five -- the humanistic ones that make no mention of God. He also gives one that is not included in the so-called Ten Commandments: "defraud not." 10:19
# Jesus says that rich people cannot go to heaven. For "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 10:25
# Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing figs, even though it was out of season. He did this to show the world how much God hates figs. 11:13-14
# If you do "not doubt in your heart" you can cast a mountain into the sea (or kill a fig tree, or whatever). 11:23-24
# "In those days ... the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall." Of course this is nonsense. The billions of stars will never fall to earth and the moon does not produce its own light. 13:24-25
# Jesus says that heaven won't last forever. 13:31
# There are some things that Jesus doesn't know -- like when the end of the world will come. 13:32
# Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 14:22-24
# One of the followers of Jesus was a young, nearly naked man who dropped his linen cloth and "fled from them naked" when the priests came to arrest Jesus. 14:51-52
# "He is risen."
Jesus came back to life after being dead for a while. 16:6
# "After that he appeared in another form."
Jesus transformed himself into a different form, appearing as a completely different person. (Maybe the disciples saw another person and assumed it was Jesus.) 16:12
# The true followers of Christ routinely perform the following tricks: 1) cast out devils, 2)speak in tongues, 3) take up serpents, 4) drink poisons without harm, and 5) cure the sick by touching them. 16:17-18
Luke
# "He shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."
John the Baptist was "filled with the Holy Ghost" even as a fetus! 1:15
# God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20
# John the Baptist, while still a fetus, leaped for joy when he heard the voice of Mary. 1:44
# How could an omniscient being "increase in wisdom"? And how could God increase "in favour with God."? 2:52
# In Luke's gospel, God addresses Jesus directly saying, "Thou art my beloved son." But Matthew (3:17) has God speak to those witnessing Jesus' baptism, by saying: "This is my beloved son." Whatever the exact wording, it is strange that after witnessing this even, John the Baptist is still unsure about Jesus (Mt.11:2-3, Lk.7:19). 3:22
# The devil takes Jesus to the top of a mountain and shows him "all the kingdoms of the world." I guess the world was flat in those days. 4:5
# Devils crawl out of people proclaiming that Jesus is "Christ the Son of God." According to 1 Jn.4:2, 15, these devils were "of God." 4:41
# Jesus heals people that are "vexed with unclean spirits." 6:18
# Invite someone that has hit you to do it again, and if someone steals from you offer them something additional. Don't turn down any borrowers (Do Christian bankers follow this one?), and when you loan something don't ask for it back. 6:29-30
# "And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak." 7:12-15
# John the Baptist, who is about to die, is still unsure about Jesus. He sends his disciples to Jesus asking: "Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?" Well, if he's not sure, how can anyone else be? 7:19
# Jesus cures those with "evil spirits." 7:21
# Jesus removes seven devils from the body of Mary Magdalene. 8:2
# "Thy faith hath made thee whole."
If you have enough faith, you will never get sick.
(Illness is caused by sin and lack of faith. Medical science is unnecessary.) 8:48
# Jesus gives his disciples "power and authority over all devils." 9:1
# There were various opinions about the identity of Jesus. Some thought he was Elijah or one of the prophets; others that he was the risen John the Baptist. With such a credulous populace, is it surprising that some people would later claim, and probably even believe, that they had seen the risen Christ? 9:7-8
# Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God. 9:27
# Jesus raises Moses and Elijah from the dead and has a conversation with them. 9:30
# Epilepsy is caused by devils. 9:39-42
# James and John ask Jesus if they can call down fire from heaven to consume the Samaritans who didn't much care for Jesus' teaching. They'd like to kill people the way Elijah did. But shucks, Jesus won't let them. 9:54
# The disciples are thrilled that "even the devils are subject" to them. 10:17-18
# "I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions ... and nothing shall by any means hurt you." 10:19
# Jesus thanks God that only the ignorant and foolish will listen to him. 10:21
# People who cannot speak are possessed with devils. 11:14
# Jesus says it is impossible to get rid of unclean spirits. If you manage to evict one, he'll soon return with seven others "more wicked than himself" and you'll be worse off than you were before. So just learn to live with whatever unclean spirits that are currently possessing you. 11:24-26
# Jesus thinks that eyes can be evil. 11:34
# Jesus calls his critics fools, thus making himself, by his own standards (Mt.5:22), worthy of "hell fire." 11:40
# Jesus tells his followers to sell everything they own and give the money to the poor. 12:33
# "That which is highly esteemed among men [love, wisdom, honesty, courage, truth, beauty, etc.] is an abomination in the sight of God." 16:15
# Those with little faith can pluck trees up by their roots and cast them into the sea. 17:6
# Jesus believes the story of Noah's ark. I guess you should too. 17:27
# Jesus also believes the story about Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history. 17:29-32
# "Thou knowest the commandments." But apparently Jesus didn't, since he only named five of the Ten Commandments. (Notice that the five on Jesus' list are the secular ones that make no mention of God.) 18:20
# Rich people cannot go to heaven. "For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." 18:25
# Dead people have no God. 20:38
# Jesus says that everyone will hate Christians, and some Christians will be killed, yet no Christian will be harmed in any way. 21:16-18
# "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars." 21:25
# "That ye may ... sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
Which tribe will Judas judge? 22:30
# "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Have you bought your Jesus sword yet?) 22:36
# Jesus tells the "good thief" that they will both be in heaven "today." But how can that be since it's only Friday and, according to the gospels, Jesus lay dead in the tomb Friday night and all day Saturday. 23:43
# "He ... is risen."
Jesus came back to life after being dead for a while. 24:6
# When Mary Magdalene and the other women gave their account of the resurrection to the apostles "their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not." 24:11
# Two of Jesus' disciples failed to recognize him after his supposed resurrection. Maybe that was because the person they saw wasn't really Jesus. 24:16
John
# John baptizes Jesus and declares him to be "the Son of God." But later, as he is about to be beheaded, John is no longer sure what to think about Jesus. So he sends his own disciples to ask, "Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?" (Mt.11:3) Well, if he isn't sure after seeing and hearing the events at Jesus' baptism, then how can anyone else be? 1:29-35
# Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into wine. 2:9
# Whoever enters a pool after it is stirred up by angels will be cured of "whatsoever disease he had." 5:4
# Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14
# "All that are in the graves shall hear his voice." 5:28
# Jesus claims that Moses wrote about him. Where? It's a shame he didn't give us chapter and verse. 5:46
# The people of Nazareth, who knew Jesus well, did not believe in him. 6:42
# Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66
# Jesus chose "a devil" for an apostle. Oh well, everyone makes mistakes. 6:70
# Even Jesus' family didn't believe in him. 7:5
# Jesus accuses people of trying to kill him. But they say to him, "Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?" 7:19-20
# "We be not born of fornication" -- implying that Jesus was. 8:41
# After Jesus makes the foolish claim that those who believe in him will never die, his listeners reply, "now we know that thou hast a devil." 8:52
# Jesus spits on the ground, mixes his spit with the dirt, and rubs the muddy spit on a blind man's eyes. 9:6
# A blind man's sight is restored by washing in the pool of Siloam. 9:7
# "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers." All the prophets, kings, and heroes of the Old Testament; everyone that ever lived before him was a thief and a robber. 10:8
# Many of those who saw Jesus firsthand thought he was mad and possessed by a devil. 10:10
# "Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth." 11:43
# You must hate your life in order to keep it. (If you love your life, you'll go to hell after you die.) 12:25
# Those who believe in Jesus will be able to perform even greater miracles than he did! 14:2
# Jesus says that whatever you ask either him or his father for you will receive. Now how's that for a big lie? 14:13-14, 15:7, 15:16, 16:23
# Now that Jesus has come, non-believers have no excuse for not believing in him. 15:22
# "She [Mary Magdalene] ... knew not that it was Jesus." (Maybe it wasn't Jesus.) 20:14
# "When the doors were shut ... came Jesus and stood in the midst."
After his resurrection, Jesus could walk through walls. 20:19, 26
# Peter is caught fishing naked. 21:7
Acts
# Those who heard the apostles speaking in tongues thought they were drunk. 2:13
# Peter says that their strange behavior (speaking in tongues, etc.) was to be expected since they were living in "the last days." 2:17
# Jesus did a little time in hell. I'm not sure what for. 2:31
# The early Christians were the first communists, living a life that was the exact opposite of George Bush's "ownership society." 2:44-45
# "Peter and John ... were unlearned and ignorant men." 4:13
# The sick were healed just by touching the shadow of Peter. 5:15-16
# A group of Christian communists were released from jail by an angel. 5:19
# It took the Israelites 40 years to travel from Egypt to Canaan, yet such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days. 7:36, 13:18
# Philip made "unclean spirits" scream as they left the bodies of the people they possessed. 8:7
# The Spirit caught Philip and transported him to a city miles away. 8:39-40
# Peter raises Tabitha from the dead. 9:36-40
# Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13
# Sick people are oppressed by the devil. 10:38
# Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-6
# Open Sesame
"They came unto the iron gate that leadeth unto the city; which opened to them of his own accord." 12:10
# "It is his angel."
The Christians pray for Peter, but when he shows up, they don't believe it. They think he was "his angel" instead. (Everyone has an angel that looks just like them.) 12:12-15
# "And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man."
When Herod gave his speech the people shouted, "It is the voice of God, and not a man." 12:20
# "Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed."
When the deputy saw that God could (through Paul) make people blind, he believed. (Who else shows off their power by blinding people?) 13:12
# David was "a man after [God's] own heart." 13:22
# The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam.12:31 and 1 Chr.20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34
# The people of Lystra thought Paul and Barnabas were the gods, Jupiter and Mercurius. 14:11-12
# Paul "was forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia." 16:6
# Paul meets "a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination." 16:16
# Paul and Silas were rescued by an earthquake that opened all the doors of the prison. The same thing happens in The Da Vinci Code where the character involved even receives a new name (Silas) to commemorate the event. 16:26
# The philosophers in Athens considered Paul a "babbler" who worshipped strange gods. 17:18
# Paul, a guy who converted to Christianity because he heard voices, calls the Greeks too darned superstitious. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! 17:22
# God winked at ignorance. 17:30
# "The school of Tyrannus" is the only school that is ever mentioned in the Bible. 19:9
# After only two years of preaching, everyone in Asia had heard the word of the Lord! 19:10
# Sick people were cured by touching the handkerchief or apron of Paul. And the evil spirits when out of them." 19:12
# Evil spirits know Jesus and Paul. They also jump on people and strip them of their clothes. 19:15-16
# A great multitude cry out "all with one voice" for two hours saying, "Great is Diana of the Ephesians." 19:34
# Eutychus was the first casualty of many long boring sermons. But Paul raised him back to life by falling on and embracing him. 20:9-12
# "A certain prophet, named Agabus ... took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands an feet." 21:10-11
# Paul, that "pestilent fellow," is described as a "ringleader of the sect of Nazarenes." 24:5
# Paul is bitten by a poisonous snake and yet lives. The "barbarians" who were shipwrecked with him thought he must be a murderer since he was bitten; but then they changed their minds and thought him to be a god since he didn't die. 28:3-6
# By praying and touching the sick people of Malta, Paul cures them of their diseases. 28:8-9
# The Jews of Rome refer to Paul's religion as a sect. 28:22
Romans
# Paul asks the very good question: "Is there unrighteousness who taketh vengeance [upon innocent people]?" The obvious answer to this is, yes. Paul then quickly adds, "I speak as a man." What else could he speak as? A donkey or a god, perhaps? 3:5
# Paul says that Abraham needed God's help to father Isaac when he was 100 years old. But Abraham, when he was even older, managed to father six more children with a new wife without any divine assistance (Gen.21:2, 25:1-2). 4:19
# The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9
# God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12
# God gave the law so "that the offence might abound." 5:20
# There is nothing good about Paul. 7:18
# God intercedes with God by talking to, and sometimes even arguing with, himself. 8:27
# "All things work together for good to them that love God."
One of the greatest and most absurd lies in all of scripture. 8:28
# Paul says that everyone, even in his day, had the gospel preached to them. Even the Native Americans, Asians, Pacific Islanders? 10:18
# "Rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil."
If you behave yourself, no king or government will mistreat you. 13:3
# It is wrong to borrow money. 13:8
# Only wimps are vegetarians. 14:2
1 Corinthians
# Poor Paul is confused. First he says that he baptized no one. Well, except for Crispus and Gaius. And maybe Stephanus and his household. He can't remember if he did it to anyone else. 1:14-16
# God saves fools and is pleased with their foolishness. 1:21
# God has "chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise." 1:27
# If you are to be a good Christian you must try to know nothing (except for Jesus, of course). 2:2-5
# Paul establishes his own cult (Christianity) by telling others to follow him. 4:16
# A believer should not sue another believer in court. 6:6-7
# Paul asks if he should "take the members of Christ, and make them members of an harlot?" He further asks, "Know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body?" 6:15-16
# "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." Really? So this stuff is in scripture but is not inspired by God? 7:12
# Paul says those who are circumcised should "not become uncircumcised." (It's pretty hard to undo.) 7:18
# Slaves should not desire their freedom. Yet they should not be the servants of men. 7:21, 23
# "Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment." So this is just Paul's opinion and is not divinely inspired scripture? 7:25
# Paul, like Jesus and the other New Testament writers, expects the end to come soon. "The time is short." So there's no time for sex or marriage since the world will be ending soon. 7:29
# Don't be an idolater. If you become one, God will make you sit down to eat and then rise up to play. 10:7
# If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll will die from snake bites. 10:9
# If you murmur, you'll be destroyed by the destroyer (God). 10:10
# Gentiles sacrifice to devils. If you have gentile friends, then you are friends with devils. 10:20
# In Galatians (1:10) Paul says, "If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ." In this verse he says, "I please all men in all things." Therefore Paul is not the servant of Christ. 10:33
# Paul says that everyone should follow him -- not Jesus. He'll take care of all that for you. 11:1
# Every man who prays or prophesies while wearing a hat dishonors his head. 11:4
# God likes short hair on men and long hair on women. 11:13-15
# Those who eat and drink unworthily often get sick and die. 11:30
# "Whether there be prophecies, they shall fail."
Paul prophesies that all prophecies will fail. But since this itself is a prophecy, it also will fail (if the prophecy is correct), making it a false prophecy. 13:8
# "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 14:38
# "He was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve."
But Judas hanged himself (Matthew 27:3-5) and Matthias was not elected (Acts 1:9-26) until after the ascension. 15:5
# This is the verse that the Mormons use to justify their belief in the baptism of the dead. 15:29
# Paul shows his ignorance (and God's) of biology by saying that only dead seeds will germinate. Actually, a seed must be alive to germinate. 15:36
2 Corinthians
# Saved people smell good to God. 2:15
# If Paul is crazy, it's God's fault; If he's sane, it's yours. 5:13
# Jesus, who was without sin, was made into sin. This made the real sinners sinless. 5:21
# Bear with me a little in my folly. 11:1
# Paul set an example for televangelists by robbing some churches. 11:8
# "I speak as a fool." 11:23
# There were these guys that Paul once knew, but he just can't remember whether it was in or out of the body. It was sort of an out of body experience. Anyway, one of these guys was way up in the third heaven and the other guy was in paradise. Cool, eh? 12:2-3
# "I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me." 12:11
# "Being crafty, I [Paul] caught you with guile." 12:16
# Are you a reprobate? Here's the test: if you know for sure that Jesus is in you, you're not a reprobate. Otherwise you are. 13:5
# Greet one another with an holy kiss. 13:12
Galatians
# Jesus was cursed by God. 3:13
# "I would they were even cut off which trouble you."
Gosh, that doesn't sound very nice. But I wonder what Paul meant by "cut off". The New Revised Standard Version translates this verse as: "I wish those who unsettle you would castrate themselves!" 5:12
# "See how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand."
Paul was proud of his large handwriting. 6:11
Ephesians
# The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God. 5:2
# Those who engage in "foolish talking" or "jesting" will not go to heaven. (Guess where they will be going.) 5:4-5
Philippians
# "Beware of dogs." 3:2
# Believe whatever Paul tells you to believe, think whatever he tells you to think, and do whatever he tells you to do. 4:9
# "My God shall supply all your need." 4:19
Colossians
# "The gospel ... was preached to every creature under heaven." 1:23
# "Rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh."
The suffering Jesus was not sufficient to satisfy God's wrath, so the Paul (or whoever wrote Colossians) had to make up for what as lacking with his own sufferings. 1:24
# "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy." 2:8
1 Thessalonians
# Paul, with his usual modesty, proclaims that he is holy, just, and blameless. 2:10
# Paul would have arrived earlier, but Satan hindered him. 2:18
2 Thessalonians
# Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth." 2:8
# Satan, not God, is all-powerful. 2:9
1 Timothy
# "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies." If we follow this advice we would ignore most of the Bible -- especially the genealogies found in Gen.10, 1 Chr.1-9, Mt.1, and Lk.3. 1:4
# "Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." Apparently (see 2 Tim.2:16-18 and 4:14-15) their "blasphemy" was disagreeing with Paul. 1:20
# "A bishop must be ... the husband of one wife." Apparently, it's OK for laymen to have several. 3:2
# "In the latter times some shall depart from the faith" by becoming vegetarians. 4:1-4
# "Every creature of God is good."
Even guinea worms?
# "Bodily exercise profiteth little." 4:8
# Paul advises us to stop drinking water. Rather, he says that we should drink wine for our "stomach's" sakes. 5:23
2 Timothy
# The devil can take us captive any time he pleases. 2:26
# "All scripture is given by the inspiration of God." Even Judges 19:22-30 and Ezek. 23:20? 3:16
Titus
# The people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies." 1:12
# Disregard "Jewish fables and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." Like most of the bible, maybe? 1:14
# "The grace of God ... hath appeared to all men." At the time this statement was written, only a very small minority had seen or heard about Jesus. And still today there are those who have never heard his name. 2:11
# "Avoid ... genealogies." Like Gen.10, 1 Chr.1-9, and Lk.3? 3:9
Philemon
# "The bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother." 1:7
# Paul asks Philemon to receive Onesimus just as though he were Paul's very "own bowels." 1:12
# "Refresh my bowels in the Lord." Amen 1:20
Hebrews
# God swears to God. 6:13
# Melchisedec had no father or mother. He just appeared ready-made by God. 7:1-3
# The heroes of faith (Samson, Jephthah, David, and Samuel) 11:32
# God always hurts the ones he loves. And if God doesn't hurt you, they you are a bastard, not a son. 12:6-8
# Be hospitable to strangers for "thereby some have entertained angels." 13:2
James
# "If any of you lack wisdom ... ask of God ... and it shall be given him."
This is the verse that set the 14-year-old Joseph Smith off to found the Mormon Church. That is just an example of the type of wisdom God can give you. 1:5
# James says that, even in his day, all beasts, birds, serpents, and sea creatures had been tamed by humans. 3:7
# If you are sick, rely on the power of prayer. It works every time. 5:14-15
# By praying, Elias was able to keep it from raining for three and a half years. 5:17
1 Peter
# "The precious blood of Christ ... was foreordained before the foundation of the world."
God planned to kill Jesus from the get-go. 1:19-20
# The devil is like a lion who wanders around looking for people to eat. 5:8
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