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Citizen X Forum Plebian


Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 178 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: Indiana
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: How dangerous is religion in today's world? |
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...and is no religion the answer?
I do not consider myself a doomsdayer, but as an individual who is generally pessimistic, my thoughts tend to lean that way.
Throughout my tenure as an atheist, I have wholeheartedly agreed with the philosophy that all people should be free to believe as they wish to believe. But each and every day, I am faced with people of religion who answer all questions with the same general responses as if they were programmed to respond in this manner. Which in fact, they are. I don't know if studies have been conducted, or if it is even feasible to establish a true, scientific study of this phenomenon. But it appears to be quite evident that many people of religion are brainwashed to believe what they believe.
With that in mind, people of religion now have access and maintain the highest seats in governments throughout the world, some of which are nuclear powers. Many of these religious minded people are looking forward to the end of times, and are genuinely excited to live in this day and age, as they believe they will have the opportunity to physically meet their maker. And I realize that none of this is news to any of you. This has been pointed out by many authors, and this topic has been mentioned in these forums.
My question is threefold: How dangerous is religion in today's world? Are you convinced that we are potentially heading for a period that will detrimentally affect the survival of mankind? If the majority were to become non-religious, do you believe that mankind would truly have a better chance to maintain its existence for millennia to come, or would the inter-arguments between the non-religious be as bad if not worse than the non-sensical inter-fighting of the religious minded of todays world? _________________ He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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pr126 resident misanthrope

Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8199 Local time: 3:29 AM

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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Shia eschatology, AhmadInJihad and his nearly ready WMD. _________________ "It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value." Arthur C Clarke
"The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see." -- Ayn Rand |
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aitm using the thinker thingy

Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 1010 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: Melbourne, Fl

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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Christianity is well watered down now. Three hundred years ago they were as horrific as todays islamic nut jobs. The difference is that over time even though early christianity fought it, education has made more skeptics and this has prompted heresies which has led to the softening of core principles of the die hard dogmattic.
Because of education, and the heresies it became necessary to relax the rules to keep the money pouring in. Christianity is no good without power so bend the rules to keep the money.
Islam, being 700 years behind, has yet to allow education beyond the Quran. Until we can get mass education going we can never get a good group of skeptics in the Muslim church.
That day is still a way off, leaving Islam as a dangerous religion that I think will piss off just enough ignorant red neck christians in this country and they will start shooting arabs in the street.
Within 10 years, my prediction. You heard it here. _________________ Its not that I question so much whether a god created man, but that he would admit it.- Thomas Brumfield
psst, theres a vagina on your bumper!
Knowledge: The cure for religion. |
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Moloth Coin Operated Boy

Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 22625 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: Warner Robins, GA

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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
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How dangerous is religion in today's world?
Extremely. the primary manifestations being: violence and enforced ignorance/dogma.
Are you convinced that we are potentially heading for a period that will detrimentally affect the survival of mankind?
yes. as our ability to harm ourselves and each other grows (weapon technology), the greater the range and effect we can have.
100 years ago, a religious nut, at best, could use a basic explosive, like TNT. today, a nuke could destroy an entire city or region.
If the majority were to become non-religious, do you believe that mankind would truly have a better chance to maintain its existence for millennia to come, or would the inter-arguments between the non-religious be as bad if not worse than the non-sensical inter-fighting of the religious minded of todays world?
i think it would give us all one less (or many less) things to fight about... and at least one more thing to talk about. In the history of the world, i have never seen or heard of violence in the 'name of atheism'. humans will always disagree and fight... but without the certainty and righteous indignation of religion, people might be less inclined to escalate it to violence. for one, we'd recognize that there is no 'eternal reward' after death... this life is precious. _________________ -=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
www.twitter.com/Moloth
www.MySpace.com/Moloth
www.last.fm/user/moloth
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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aitm using the thinker thingy

Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 1010 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: Melbourne, Fl

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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Christianity is well watered down now. Three hundred years ago they were as horrific as todays islamic nut jobs. The difference is that over time even though early christianity fought it, education has made more skeptics and this has prompted heresies which has led to the softening of core principles of the die hard dogmattic.
Because of education, and the heresies it became necessary to relax the rules to keep the money pouring in. Christianity is no good without power so bend the rules to keep the money.
Islam, being 700 years behind, has yet to allow education beyond the Quran. Until we can get mass education going we can never get a good group of skeptics in the Muslim church.
That day is still a way off, leaving Islam as a dangerous religion that I think will piss off just enough ignorant red neck christians in this country and they will start shooting arabs in the street.
Within 10 years, my prediction. You heard it here. _________________ Its not that I question so much whether a god created man, but that he would admit it.- Thomas Brumfield
psst, theres a vagina on your bumper!
Knowledge: The cure for religion. |
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romans120 Moderator


Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Posts: 1816 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: mid-west
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: How dangerous is religion in today's world? |
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| Citizen X wrote: | ...and is no religion the answer?
I do not consider myself a doomsdayer, but as an individual who is generally pessimistic, my thoughts tend to lean that way.
Throughout my tenure as an atheist, I have wholeheartedly agreed with the philosophy that all people should be free to believe as they wish to believe. But each and every day, I am faced with people of religion who answer all questions with the same general responses as if they were programmed to respond in this manner. Which in fact, they are. I don't know if studies have been conducted, or if it is even feasible to establish a true, scientific study of this phenomenon. But it appears to be quite evident that many people of religion are brainwashed to believe what they believe.
With that in mind, people of religion now have access and maintain the highest seats in governments throughout the world, some of which are nuclear powers. Many of these religious minded people are looking forward to the end of times, and are genuinely excited to live in this day and age, as they believe they will have the opportunity to physically meet their maker. And I realize that none of this is news to any of you. This has been pointed out by many authors, and this topic has been mentioned in these forums.
My question is threefold: How dangerous is religion in today's world? Are you convinced that we are potentially heading for a period that will detrimentally affect the survival of mankind? If the majority were to become non-religious, do you believe that mankind would truly have a better chance to maintain its existence for millennia to come, or would the inter-arguments between the non-religious be as bad if not worse than the non-sensical inter-fighting of the religious minded of todays world? |
I think the phenomenon you are referring to is indoctrination or being educated to give responses consistent within a particular system. I do not think skepticism is immune to this. You all give standard answers to theistic arguments. Those answers are consistent with the doctrine of skepticism. You are indoctrinated into skepticism and give the same general responses as other skeptics. _________________ The Resident Theist
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Moloth Coin Operated Boy

Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 22625 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: Warner Robins, GA

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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: How dangerous is religion in today's world? |
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| romans120 wrote: | | Citizen X wrote: | ...and is no religion the answer?
I do not consider myself a doomsdayer, but as an individual who is generally pessimistic, my thoughts tend to lean that way.
Throughout my tenure as an atheist, I have wholeheartedly agreed with the philosophy that all people should be free to believe as they wish to believe. But each and every day, I am faced with people of religion who answer all questions with the same general responses as if they were programmed to respond in this manner. Which in fact, they are. I don't know if studies have been conducted, or if it is even feasible to establish a true, scientific study of this phenomenon. But it appears to be quite evident that many people of religion are brainwashed to believe what they believe.
With that in mind, people of religion now have access and maintain the highest seats in governments throughout the world, some of which are nuclear powers. Many of these religious minded people are looking forward to the end of times, and are genuinely excited to live in this day and age, as they believe they will have the opportunity to physically meet their maker. And I realize that none of this is news to any of you. This has been pointed out by many authors, and this topic has been mentioned in these forums.
My question is threefold: How dangerous is religion in today's world? Are you convinced that we are potentially heading for a period that will detrimentally affect the survival of mankind? If the majority were to become non-religious, do you believe that mankind would truly have a better chance to maintain its existence for millennia to come, or would the inter-arguments between the non-religious be as bad if not worse than the non-sensical inter-fighting of the religious minded of todays world? |
I think the phenomenon you are referring to is indoctrination or being educated to give responses consistent within a particular system. I do not think skepticism is immune to this. You all give standard answers to theistic arguments. Those answers are consistent with the doctrine of skepticism. You are indoctrinated into skepticism and give the same general responses as other skeptics. |
2+2=4 is not indoctrination.
A = A is not indoctrination.
you're trying to equate logic, reason, science, rationality and skepticism (which is the ANTITHESIS of dogma and indoctrination) with religion.
its never worked before and its not going to work now, romans.
there is NO 'doctrine of skepticism'. thats a contradiction in terms. _________________ -=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
www.twitter.com/Moloth
www.MySpace.com/Moloth
www.last.fm/user/moloth
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Hit_me_up024 Forum Master


Joined: 25 Dec 2007 Posts: 2245 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: My parents basement.

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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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how dangerous is religion in todays world?
72 virgins worth. _________________ Im Like a flie to the NEON lights, a good BUZZ is the only thing i need
Props to Enemy_of_Reality |
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kmisho Stochastic

Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 4388 Local time: 1:29 PM Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: How dangerous is religion in today's world? |
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| romans120 wrote: |
I think the phenomenon you are referring to is indoctrination or being educated to give responses consistent within a particular system. I do not think skepticism is immune to this. You all give standard answers to theistic arguments. Those answers are consistent with the doctrine of skepticism. You are indoctrinated into skepticism and give the same general responses as other skeptics. |
Scepticism is only about trying not to be fooled. There is no indoctrination. I only ask that things I am supposed to believe make sense in and of themselves and accord with my experience as human being.
If only religion were so liberal! No one would have needed to invent the hell-threat to keep people from doubting the outrageous absurdities of religion. _________________ K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
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pr126 resident misanthrope

Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8199 Local time: 3:29 AM

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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Something has started already Looks like it will be an interesting summer. _________________ "It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value." Arthur C Clarke
"The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see." -- Ayn Rand |
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Citizen X Forum Plebian


Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 178 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: Indiana
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | How dangerous is religion in today's world?
Extremely. the primary manifestations being: violence and enforced ignorance/dogma. |
I agree completely.
| Moloth wrote: | Are you convinced that we are potentially heading for a period that will detrimentally affect the survival of mankind?
yes. as our ability to harm ourselves and each other grows (weapon technology), the greater the range and effect we can have.
100 years ago, a religious nut, at best, could use a basic explosive, like TNT. today, a nuke could destroy an entire city or region. |
Again, I completely agree. But what I am still arguing with in my mind, is one, what is the most effective way to eliminate the mindset that we are up against (not the religious mindset, but the mindset that we will do our part in bringing on the end of humanity, as our religous doctrine clearly states that that time is now), and two, is it possible to end this mindset without ending all religion, and if so, is it possible to do so without placing a deep wedge between the religious and the non-religious?
| Moloth wrote: | If the majority were to become non-religious, do you believe that mankind would truly have a better chance to maintain its existence for millennia to come, or would the inter-arguments between the non-religious be as bad if not worse than the non-sensical inter-fighting of the religious minded of todays world?
i think it would give us all one less (or many less) things to fight about... and at least one more thing to talk about. In the history of the world, i have never seen or heard of violence in the 'name of atheism'. humans will always disagree and fight... but without the certainty and righteous indignation of religion, people might be less inclined to escalate it to violence. for one, we'd recognize that there is no 'eternal reward' after death... this life is precious. |
While I do not disagree with you, the one concern that I have is the apparent difficulty that many atheists have in joining atheist organizations. Atheists have one thing in common: they believe there is no god. But after that one point, we all differ immensely. I do not equate those differences to the multiple denominations found in Protestant Christianity, but these differences do tend to make it difficult to establish a large unified front. You could say that some atheist organizations have had successful recruitment, but it really comes down to the numbers in which one considers to be successful. On a world wide scale, I do not see great success. So, yes, we would have less to argue about if the world religions were no longer here, but does humanity have the intellectual capacity for all to unite under a blanket of truth seekers, freethinkers, and critically minded individuals, whose sole purpose is to insure the evolution of mankind and its civilization? Or is the human psyche destined to produce arguments, wars, and destruction no matter what ideology dominates the landscape? _________________ He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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Philosophos Do it

Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 9289 Local time: 11:29 PM Location: Where Scum Are
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: How dangerous is religion in today's world? |
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[quote="Citizen X"How dangerous is religion in today's world?[/quote]
Moderately, for similar reasons Moloth gave: violence, and the celebration and enforcement of ignorance.
| Quote: | | Are you convinced that we are potentially heading for a period that will detrimentally affect the survival of mankind? |
No, but it may detrimentally affect our standard of living, or the world as we know it.
| Quote: | | If the majority were to become non-religious, do you believe that mankind would truly have a better chance to maintain its existence for millennia to come, or would the inter-arguments between the non-religious be as bad if not worse than the non-sensical inter-fighting of the religious minded of todays world? |
It depends on what it's replaced with. If violent political factions, for instance, sprung up to take their place that celebrated and enforced ignorance, then nothing would have changed. _________________ The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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Citizen X Forum Plebian


Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 178 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: Indiana
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: How dangerous is religion in today's world? |
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| romans120 wrote: | | I think the phenomenon you are referring to is indoctrination or being educated to give responses consistent within a particular system. I do not think skepticism is immune to this. You all give standard answers to theistic arguments. Those answers are consistent with the doctrine of skepticism. You are indoctrinated into skepticism and give the same general responses as other skeptics. |
I agree that many of the responses made by atheists does fit this definition. However, many do not. Many of the responses by atheists are based on sound evidence, the rules of logic, and scientific theory. I have yet to have a discussion with a theist who bases any of their beliefs on any of these three.
Further, I do not know how one becomes indoctrinated into skepticism, not to say that it is not possible or that it does not happen. Commenting on my own experience, I was a very devout Christian who was becoming a leader in the Christian community. I personnally led hundereds of people to Jesus. I read the Bible each and every day, and was truly a 24/7 Christian. I was consistently told by church leaders from multiple denominations that one should not read historical books written by non-Christians. But I had always had the belief that one should truly know their enemy. It was my opinion that if Christianity was the one true religion, and Jesus is the one true god, then what harm could possibly come from reading the information that supposedly disputes the very religion in which I had based my life? I had faith that Jesus was guiding me; that Jesus was preparing me with knowledge so that I would be completely prepared to go out and spread the Word of God. So, by reading historical information from both a Christian and a secular viewpoint, did I become indoctrinated into skepticism? Perhaps I am incorrect, but I would like to think that I took a hard look at the evidence from both sides, and slowly began to realize that my belief in Christianity did not have a very strong foundation of evidence. Further, I managed to hear just that from multiple very educated Christian men, all of who conceded that belief in Christianity is completely based on faith. I have continued to study documents written by people of multiple religions, as well as documents from skeptics. When I lost my faith, it is very safe to say that my understanding of skepticism was immensely limited. So, when did this indoctrination begin? Particularly, since I did not read about skepticism for nearly a decade after losing my faith. _________________ He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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Moloth Coin Operated Boy

Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 22625 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: Warner Robins, GA

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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: How dangerous is religion in today's world? |
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| Citizen X wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | I think the phenomenon you are referring to is indoctrination or being educated to give responses consistent within a particular system. I do not think skepticism is immune to this. You all give standard answers to theistic arguments. Those answers are consistent with the doctrine of skepticism. You are indoctrinated into skepticism and give the same general responses as other skeptics. |
I agree that many of the responses made by atheists does fit this definition. However, many do not. Many of the responses by atheists are based on sound evidence, the rules of logic, and scientific theory. I have yet to have a discussion with a theist who bases any of their beliefs on any of these three.
Further, I do not know how one becomes indoctrinated into skepticism, not to say that it is not possible or that it does not happen. Commenting on my own experience, I was a very devout Christian who was becoming a leader in the Christian community. I personnally led hundereds of people to Jesus. I read the Bible each and every day, and was truly a 24/7 Christian. I was consistently told by church leaders from multiple denominations that one should not read historical books written by non-Christians. But I had always had the belief that one should truly know their enemy. It was my opinion that if Christianity was the one true religion, and Jesus is the one true god, then what harm could possibly come from reading the information that supposedly disputes the very religion in which I had based my life? I had faith that Jesus was guiding me; that Jesus was preparing me with knowledge so that I would be completely prepared to go out and spread the Word of God. So, by reading historical information from both a Christian and a secular viewpoint, did I become indoctrinated into skepticism? Perhaps I am incorrect, but I would like to think that I took a hard look at the evidence from both sides, and slowly began to realize that my belief in Christianity did not have a very strong foundation of evidence. Further, I managed to hear just that from multiple very educated Christian men, all of who conceded that belief in Christianity is completely based on faith. I have continued to study documents written by people of multiple religions, as well as documents from skeptics. When I lost my faith, it is very safe to say that my understanding of skepticism was immensely limited. So, when did this indoctrination begin? Particularly, since I did not read about skepticism for nearly a decade after losing my faith. |
O_o
wow, i didn't know you were such an apostate. _________________ -=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
www.twitter.com/Moloth
www.MySpace.com/Moloth
www.last.fm/user/moloth
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Citizen X Forum Plebian


Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 178 Local time: 10:29 PM Location: Indiana
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| aitm wrote: | | Christianity is well watered down now. |
In comparison to Islam, I would agree. But there are some very extreme Christian denominations that, to me, are just as frightening as Islamic extremists. Not frightening in the sense that I'm worried I'll be blown up on a bus on the way to work, but frightening in the sense of the utter ignorance that is being spout from their lips, and the sense that some very influential people are seeking these nutjobs for spiritual guidance. _________________ He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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