| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
atheod
Forum Master
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2260
Local time: 1:31 PM
|
 Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: |
  |
|
| munky99999 wrote: | | Wander wrote: | | Without having read any of this thread, I always wondered (moreso when I was a Christian) what reason Satan would have for eternally torturing those who he would be most likely to find agreeable. Or is it even Satan doing the torturing. |
already brought up the question... nobody has answered this for me. Not this thread...not any other thread... and not in real life mmog. |
Every being who exists in hell does the torturing. If you were there, you'd be torturing anyone around you including yourself and they'd be torturing you.
Why? I believe it's because you'd be an unrepentant sinner who doesn't know how to live with others for an eternity without hurting them. I could be wrong though, but God is supposed to be a lot wiser then us. If anyone would know of a way to live eternally without hurting others he should.
Last edited by atheod on Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
|
Enemy_of_Real1ty
Graphic Terrorist
Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 217
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: us
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | God "CAN'T be wrong!" only if you first have faith God's opinion of himself is absolutely right.
So if I don't have faith in god his opinion of himself drops?
No, your opinion of him drops.
|
Obviously, but its gotta hurt god that so many are losing faith in him. His ego must be shrinking. 
_________________
My Blog: http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=31 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atheod
Forum Master
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2260
Local time: 1:31 PM
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lumpymunk wrote: | Fun thoughts,
Lets pretend for a second that it's all true...
I think it's likely that the whole "torture you for eternity" shit was propoganda for heaven to recruit more "troops" than hell. All of the commandment/theology shit is just conditioning you to take orders from gawd without thinking. I always pictured an actual battle of sorts. Hopefully it will be medieval style and we'll all get sweet swords and armor.
/daydream off
I remember a transition period in my deconversion where I thought a lot about this and I came to the conclusion that I would rather fight against god in hell than support a god who did THIS to mankind. |
I picture something like the events in the Evangelion anime myself. hehe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23071
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atheod wrote: | | munky99999 wrote: | | Wander wrote: | | Without having read any of this thread, I always wondered (moreso when I was a Christian) what reason Satan would have for eternally torturing those who he would be most likely to find agreeable. Or is it even Satan doing the torturing. |
already brought up the question... nobody has answered this for me. Not this thread...not any other thread... and not in real life mmog. |
Every being who exists in hell does the torturing. If you were there, you'd be torturing anyone around you including yourself and they'd be torturing you.
|
could you please cite your source or explain to us how you gained this kind of accurate knowledge about what is, presumably, another plane of existence?
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4671
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| atheod wrote: | | munky99999 wrote: | | Wander wrote: | | Without having read any of this thread, I always wondered (moreso when I was a Christian) what reason Satan would have for eternally torturing those who he would be most likely to find agreeable. Or is it even Satan doing the torturing. |
already brought up the question... nobody has answered this for me. Not this thread...not any other thread... and not in real life mmog. |
Every being who exists in hell does the torturing. If you were there, you'd be torturing anyone around you including yourself and they'd be torturing you.
Why? I believe it's because you'd be an unrepentant sinner who doesn't know how to live with others for an eternity without hurting them. I could be wrong though, but God is supposed to be a lot wiser then us. If anyone would know of a way to live eternally without hurting others he should. |
You know this how? Even than... it makes absolutely no sense... why aren't I torturing people right now on earth? That makes about the same sense as why I might want to do it in hell.
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atheod
Forum Master
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2260
Local time: 1:31 PM
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Moloth wrote: | | atheod wrote: | | munky99999 wrote: | | Wander wrote: | | Without having read any of this thread, I always wondered (moreso when I was a Christian) what reason Satan would have for eternally torturing those who he would be most likely to find agreeable. Or is it even Satan doing the torturing. |
already brought up the question... nobody has answered this for me. Not this thread...not any other thread... and not in real life mmog. |
Every being who exists in hell does the torturing. If you were there, you'd be torturing anyone around you including yourself and they'd be torturing you.
|
could you please cite your source or explain to us how you gained this kind of accurate knowledge about what is, presumably, another plane of existence? |
My source would be my overview of the Christian Bible. And I don't necessarily have an accurate knowledge of hell, I just have my hunch. The Bible doesn't say anything about us keeping our bodies when we go to hell or that there is oxygen in hell to allow for rapid oxidation. I don't recall it saying anything about spirits being flammable. It doesn't say anything about God being in hell. As I see it the only beings in hell are us, if we go there, Satan and his chums. I don't recall the Bible saying Satan necessarily tortures you in hell but it does say he's a deceiver and that he hates God. I gather that hell is hell because of the beings in it, not it's environment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atheod
Forum Master
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2260
Local time: 1:31 PM
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| munky99999 wrote: | | atheod wrote: | | munky99999 wrote: | | Wander wrote: | | Without having read any of this thread, I always wondered (moreso when I was a Christian) what reason Satan would have for eternally torturing those who he would be most likely to find agreeable. Or is it even Satan doing the torturing. |
already brought up the question... nobody has answered this for me. Not this thread...not any other thread... and not in real life mmog. |
Every being who exists in hell does the torturing. If you were there, you'd be torturing anyone around you including yourself and they'd be torturing you.
Why? I believe it's because you'd be an unrepentant sinner who doesn't know how to live with others for an eternity without hurting them. I could be wrong though, but God is supposed to be a lot wiser then us. If anyone would know of a way to live eternally without hurting others he should. |
You know this how? Even than... it makes absolutely no sense... why aren't I torturing people right now on earth? |
Have you ever in any way hurt someone else?
| Quote: |
That makes about the same sense as why I might want to do it in hell. |
The whole point is that God thinks hell is torture. You might think it's "heaven". Any hurt you might feel isn't so bad and well worth it. And even if it is bad it's obvously everyone else's fault and/or God's fault. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4671
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | My source would be my overview of the Christian Bible. |
On other words no... because we too have read the bible and know for a fact the answer you provide are not in there.
| Quote: | | And I don't necessarily have an accurate knowledge of hell, |
You were giving some pretty specific details.
| Quote: | | I just have my hunch. |
So you dont actually have any clue... you just think in your mind that might be how it works. Well good for you... you keep believing that.
| Quote: | | As I see it the only beings in hell are us, if we go there, Satan and his chums. |
All of which are people who more or less agree with each other. In that God sucks balls. Why would these people suddenly be completely different people and start torturing their friends... afterall the world has never ever had a majority of belief... even during the dark ages... it was still more or less tiny minorty groups... just like today. So if God is real... chances are that a significant number of people who are very very good people... such as atheists, buddhists, jains, and many others who never did an immoral thing their entire life-- will be in hell.
| Quote: | | Have you ever in any way hurt someone else? |
Here you basically changed your argument. Have I ever accidently nudged someone so they stubbed their toe? Probably... that's a pretty fucking far cry from torturing people.
You have no argument why if I died and showed up in hell... that I would suddenly change and become like christians and start holding inquistions and start torturing people. To what ends infact? It's hell and we are apparently there permanently. Infact if Hitler showed up in Hell(which I dunno why he would if the Christian God exists... he followed the bible pretty well) and was along side with jews... he'd like be like... well shit this sucks... i guess I'll just chill down here... it's not like he can exterminate the jews down there... where would they go?
Oh and to answer your question... No I haven't tortured anyone... I have not murdered anyone... I have not injured someone which would be considered illegal... I accidentally dropped a mouse box on an old lady once at a computer store... I said sorry and I never did it again. If I am to go to hell and drop mice on people's head... that's pretty fucking wierd.
| Quote: | | The whole point is that God thinks hell is torture. |
Which is propoganda. If assuming its all real... which clearly its not.
| Quote: | | You might think it's "heaven". |
Ya if God wants to torture me... he'd bring me to heaven and than I'd have to live with some of the most christian insane people of history... such as hitler, the popes who approved the crusades and inquisitions... and many other bigtime fucktards.
There's absolutely no reason to believe that IF hell were real... that it'd be anything like what is portrayed in the propaganda.
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: D-brane
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Enemy_of_Real1ty wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: | | Wander wrote: | | Without having read any of this thread, I always wondered (moreso when I was a Christian) what reason Satan would have for eternally torturing those who he would be most likely to find agreeable. Or is it even Satan doing the torturing. |
One answer would be: It's Satan's nature to torture, that's why he's evil, and that's God's will...
Ok, that was three answers... |
Satan was orignally an angel in heaven who wanted more power, and depending on what bible you read Lucifer and his band of soon to be "demons"try to overthrow god, nearly do it, then they are cast out of heaven.
Just seems like greed was a motivator, or since history is written by the winners it was a revolution because the angels knew god was a dick ruler perhaps?
Either way you look at it you never hear of Lucifer becoming evil, just his fall from heaven and his position as ruler of hell. So he could be a nice guy.
Now another fallacy is discovered in religion, if god created the angels, that means he also created the devil, but without the intention of Lucifer becoming the devil. ( at least no where I've read does it claim god had the intention to do so.) |
The question that looms large in my mind is: what if Lucifer repents? Does God forgive him? And what happens to hell, which would become unsupervised? Would God need to create another Lucifer, perhaps a clone without the repent factor? Would history repeats itself?
Ok, that's more than one question... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: D-brane
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| atheod wrote: |
Every being who exists in hell does the torturing. If you were there, you'd be torturing anyone around you including yourself and they'd be torturing you.
|
Ha, wouldn't that be a motivation to go to hell??? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atheod
Forum Master
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2260
Local time: 1:31 PM
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| munky99999 wrote: | | Quote: | | My source would be my overview of the Christian Bible. |
On other words no... because we too have read the bible and know for a fact the answer you provide are not in there. |
Can you cite an example?
| Quote: |
You were giving some pretty specific details. |
My hunch is specific. It could be wrong though.
| Quote: |
So you dont actually have any clue... |
I have a hunch.
| Quote: |
you just think in your mind that might be how it works. Well good for you... you keep believing that. |
That's the idea...
| Quote: |
All of which are people who more or less agree with each other. |
You'll all agree God is an asshole. God isn't in hell. Are you going to just talk about some dude you never see anymore for all eternity? Might the topic not eventually move from God to something a little more pressing?
| Quote: |
In that God sucks balls. Why would these people suddenly be completely different people and start torturing their friends... afterall the world has never ever had a majority of belief... even during the dark ages... it was still more or less tiny minorty groups... just like today. So if God is real... chances are that a significant number of people who are very very good people... such as atheists, buddhists, jains, and many others who never did an immoral thing their entire life-- will be in hell. |
You don't get it. It's God who calls hell torture. I'm sure if your "very very good people" show up in hell, they'll think they're making hell a "very very good" place. Again I ask, if God is such an asshole, why believe him when he says hell is bad?
You're argument doesn't make sense. You're assuming God is right about hell to prove God isn't right about hell.
| Quote: |
Here you basically changed your argument. Have I ever accidently nudged someone so they stubbed their toe? Probably... that's a pretty fucking far cry from torturing people. |
"Hurt" as in any way hurt. Not just physically. We don't always realize the consequences of our actions. To error is human after all.
| Quote: |
You have no argument why if I died and showed up in hell... that I would suddenly change and become like christians and start holding inquistions and start torturing people. To what ends infact? It's hell and we are apparently there permanently. Infact if Hitler showed up in Hell(which I dunno why he would if the Christian God exists... he followed the bible pretty well) and was along side with jews... he'd like be like... well shit this sucks... i guess I'll just chill down here... it's not like he can exterminate the jews down there... where would they go? |
The Bible says most people are going to hell, so you'd have a lot more company in hell then those in heaven. If you showed up in hell, I'm sure you'd do the same things you do on earth, except you wouldn't have a physical body to please. And you wouldn't have to worry about being an atheist anymore. You'd basically have no reason to change since you've got that whole eternity in hell thing going for you. Why believe God when he says hell is torture?
| Quote: |
Oh and to answer your question... No I haven't tortured anyone... I have not murdered anyone... I have not injured someone which would be considered illegal... I accidentally dropped a mouse box on an old lady once at a computer store... I said sorry and I never did it again. If I am to go to hell and drop mice on people's head... that's pretty fucking wierd. |
So basically, you're a saint. Maybe you'd turn hell into a heaven eh? God must be mistaken when he calls hell torture. I mean, he's only God and you're.... well you! The saint.
| Quote: |
Which is propoganda. If assuming its all real... which clearly its not. |
Of course it's propaganda assuming it's even real. God lied about hell. Why do you think he lied? Why would this God character want us to think hell is torture?
| Quote: |
There's absolutely no reason to believe that IF hell were real... that it'd be anything like what is portrayed in the propaganda. |
If God were real, I think I'd trust him over you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4671
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | | On other words no... because we too have read the bible and know for a fact the answer you provide are not in there. |
Can you cite an example? |
I have to cite an example to prove that we(I) have read the bible? or prove that something isnt in the bible... only way to do that is to cite THE BIBLE. or if you discount what I say... provide the example in contradiction.
| Quote: | | You'll all agree God is an asshole. God isn't in hell. Are you going to just talk about some dude you never see anymore for all eternity? Might the topic not eventually move from God to something a little more pressing? |
Again... I speak about religion often. If I died and ended up in a hell... I think talking about it to find out which very very small minority actually got to go to heaven... I'd want more information... not to mention the fact that if the bible is true... demons and such do exist and they are composed of ex-humans who have been corrupted... so I probably would have a goal of obtaining that. Especially considering the bad propaganda... Satan and demons have killed virtually nobody nor nothing on earth... but rather things that were possessed which killed by JEsus for example... the pigs off a cliff for example... the good guys in this bible(propaganda compilation) are clearly the evil ones.
| Quote: | | You don't get it. It's God who calls hell torture. |
Again you state this... are you really just conceding the point that the bible is infact propaganda...
| Quote: | | I'm sure if your "very very good people" show up in hell, they'll think they're making hell a "very very good" place. Again I ask, if God is such an asshole, why believe him when he says hell is bad? |
I'm not... I am the one arguing that it is all propaganda. You are the believer(presumably) who agrees to kill homosexuals, kill disobedient children, and other completely evil things so you can go to heaven. To avoid torture. You are the one who believes the propaganda to be true...
| Quote: | | You're argument doesn't make sense. You're assuming God is right about hell to prove God isn't right about hell. |
It's a common way to actually prove things true or false... perhaps you should take somes classes in logic... hell even my geometry class taught this.
| Quote: | | "Hurt" as in any way hurt. Not just physically. We don't always realize the consequences of our actions. To error is human after all. |
God damn ur retarded... if you are verbally abusive... that's a pretty fucking farcry from TORTURE. Hell if being verbally abusive was torture... waterboarding would be the worst of torture.
| Quote: | | If you showed up in hell, I'm sure you'd do the same things you do on earth, except you wouldn't have a physical body to please. |
You still havent backed up your claim that everyone has a significant personality change that makes them TORTURE each other. Please stop avoiding this.
| Quote: | | And you wouldn't have to worry about being an atheist anymore. |
worry about? Who the fuck says I'm worrying about being an atheist now... I worry about being wrong about God at about the same level of worry as Klingons, Bugs Bunny, Peter Pan, and the Loch ness monster. In other words NOT AT ALL.
| Quote: | | You'd basically have no reason to change since you've got that whole eternity in hell thing going for you. |
Actually that's not how facts work... if I died and was in hell. I now have evidence toward the fact that hell does exist. Thusly also some God exists... therefore I would have some evidence that God does exist... I would be a fool to not believe god exists at that point.
| Quote: | | Why believe God when he says hell is torture? |
I dont... in logic a way to disprove a thing is to assume its true and than try to work it out... when you find a single contradiction... it fails and therefore is wrong.
| Quote: | | So basically, you're a saint. |
That's a religious term... there are no saints in atheism.
| Quote: | | Maybe you'd turn hell into a heaven eh? |
No. My joining hell would not change it much... hell other than my joining it wouldnt change...
| Quote: | | God must be mistaken when he calls hell torture. |
You apparently dont have a fucking clue what the word propaganda means.
I'd go one further... in reality lets say hell and heaven exists... the bible is propaganda... HELL is where good people go and that's where you live in utter bliss the rest of your life... Heaven on the otherhand is the place of torture. God and his angels force you to praise god and lots of other things.
| Quote: | | Of course it's propaganda assuming it's even real. God lied about hell. Why do you think he lied? Why would this God character want us to think hell is torture? |
Ya that pretty much proves you dont have a clue what propaganda is. Or you are being so disingenuous you dont realize how you are making no point here and moreso just proving my point.
| Quote: | | If God were real, I think I'd trust him over you. |
Geobbels was such a upstanding and powerful figure... why would I believe a stinking jew who lives in poverty and in a death camp over him...
_________________
A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joshuas3521
Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 2237
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: D-brane
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joshuas3521 wrote: |
|
HABA, HABA... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mathew
Intern
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 38
Local time: 10:31 PM
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, if I had the choice of spending an eternity in Heaven with Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ann Coulter, James Dobson, and all those other right-wing nutjobs, then I'd choose Hell in a heartbeat...
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Live Video and Chat Room
Freethought Videos
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
