| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
hillbillyatheist
Administrator
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 15986
Local time: 11:07 PM
Location: Denver Colorado.
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
  |
|
| Pile wrote: | | hillbillyatheist wrote: |
the idea that the NRA is racist is just plain bullshit. now if you think their position on guns is too extreme, that is debatable but the idea that they're racist assholes is just plain utter bullshit.
|
I think that a driving force of the hard core NRA membership is racist. That's my contention. Michael Moore captured a sense of it when he interviewed Charlton Heston and he let some of his racist thoughts slip on camera. Most of my right-wing-pro-gun friends are rabidly racist too, but they don't advertise it around strangers. Growing up in the South, it's a way of life down here. Guns and racism go hand-in-hand. If you don't believe me, go to a gun show... every gun show has at least one or two tables chock full of Nazi memoribillia.
I'm sorry HBA, but if you don't see this, maybe you should change your name, because no self-respecting Hillbilly would disagree. That's part of the heritage that people don't say out loud, but it's there. Maybe it's more hidden up north. |
here in oklahoma there is not racism around every corner. also the fact that nazis go to gun rallies does not make the events racist. you are placing guilt by association. I believe that racism is dying except among the old who are set in their ways. younger generations have moved past that.. I have never been to the deep south though, so maybe it's sill a big deal, there, I don't know, but here in oklahoma racism is not huge problem, at least that I can see. tell me why you think racism is everywhere in the south? do you run into alot of people who "hate them gul dern niggers"? how many people hate blacks down there? got any statistics? as for the NRA, go check out their website. there is nothing there about hating backs. not only that but it was the NRA who fought for blacks rights to have guns during jim crow. in fact during that time the NRA was mostly black freedmen in the south. not only that but the NRA was founded by union soldiers.
anyway check out this article.
http://www.theinternetparty.org/commentary/c_s.php?td=20030526000108§ion_type=com
lastly heston fought for civil rights if memory serves. can you prove to me that he is racist? (not that it matters as that is again guilt by association, one must look at what the NRA is doing and what it stands for to conclude if it is racist or not, and it isn't, nor has it ever been. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
|
hillbillyatheist
Administrator
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 15986
Local time: 11:07 PM
Location: Denver Colorado.
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
oh, btw, I fully support the NRA. am i a racist now? (you will not be the first leftist to call me such. in fact many leftists have, and hence my skepticism to their claims that racism is everywhere. if they think I am racist, when I am not, then I wonder how many other "racists" they know where really aren't.
(apologies in advance if you are not a leftist, as I have accused you of) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 3810
Local time: 2:07 PM
Location: Cin City, OH!
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| aileron wrote: | | No matter who wrote the draft, various edits and compromises were required to have it executed into law. The wording of the Virginia Bill of Rights was not used in the Constitution. If they wanted Virginia's wording, why did they sign into law different wording? Among other changes, they took out the part, "...that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty..." In any event, times had changed since 1776. The nation was no longer at war with the U.K., and faced rebellions and insurrection of its own since that time. |
Regarding standing armies, similar content was already in article 1, section 8.
| Quote: | | To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years |
| aileron wrote: | | Also, the Virginia Bill of Rights just like the Constitution includes the qualification, "That a well-regulated militia, or composed of the body of the people, trained to arms..." The intent is clear that to keep and bear arms the law required regulation and training. Who was going to do the well-regulated part in the 18th century? Who was going to do the trained to arms part back then? |
Be careful about how you parse that comma though, as comma usage was different back then. Perhaps "the body of the people who are trained to arms" would be more appropriate in modern English. And yes, the congress and president are tasked with regulating the militia, but that does not change the intended constituents of that militia.
| aileron wrote: | | Quote: | | And the fact that the United States now has the continued presence of armed forces doesn't change the intent of the bill, which was for everyone to have the ability to form a militia. |
That's not exactly right. Their intent was clearly for white men age 18-45 to enlist, train, and drill in their local militia, established by their state or municipal government and run by duly-appointed commissioned officers and non-commissioned officers. Clearly their intent was not for "everyone to have the ability to form a militia" because in large part the Second Amendment and the Militia Act of 1792 are responses to the government’s concern about private militias and the need for government regulation of them. |
Yeah, my wording wasn't very good there. I meant form as in "comprise," not as in "start a militia whenever you feel like it," though it would seem like that would also be covered elsewhere as protected free association.
| aileron wrote: | | Quote: | | You comment about areas with scarce law enforcement, on the other hand, is utterly irrelevant to the original intent of the amendment. |
I don't see why you think so. The primary intent of the Militia Act of 1792 and the Second Amendment was to preserve law and order where law enforcement was insufficient to do so on its own. They were in large part a response to the ineffectual government response and subsequent disorganized effort of a private militia to suppress the Shays’ Rebellion. What were the first uses of the militias after the signing of the Constitution and the Militia Act of 1792? Were they to prevent the government from oppressing its people as the gun lobbies quaintly want people to think was the intent of the militias? No, they were to suppress insurrection and lawlessness in frontier regions, such as the Whiskey Rebellion. |
Fair enough. I kind of read outside the lines on that one and supposed you were referring to protection from common crimes where law enforcement is scarce, rather than suppression of insurrections, which yeah, would seem to be covered by the militia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yellow_Number_Five
Forum Master
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 10036
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: The 5% Nation
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sjc wrote: | | Yellow_Number_Five wrote: | | Yes, actually it is. If you have a clean criminal record, why shouldn't you be permitted to purchase a firearm? |
Proof that you won't be irresponsible with said firearm and that you actually know how to handle one and I don't mean knowing just how to fire one. |
Actually, I'm proof positive that it is. I own dozens of guns. They've never been used in a crime. They've never been fired at anything but paper and clay - and the occasional water melon.
| Quote: | | In Canada anyone who wants to legally own a firearm has to prove these things first. It may not stop everyone, but it does limit the problem. Its no different than having a driver's license. I have nothing against responsible gun ownership. |
Good for Canada.
| Quote: | | BTW, how would a firearm dealer know that you don't have a criminal record unless they check first? Identity thief is a growing problem. |
They DO check first.
_________________
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
If you love God, burn a church! - Jello Biafra
When I hear of Schr?dinger's cat, I reach for my gun. - Stephen Hawking
Fear is just another word for ignorance. - Hunter S. Thompson
.jpg) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yellow_Number_Five
Forum Master
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 10036
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: The 5% Nation
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
And look, if we are honest about it, MOST guns used in crimes are illegally purchased or stolen outright. There IS a BIG problem with straw purchases of guns in the US - that means that a person with a clean record will go into a store and buy a dozen or so pistols for a convicted felon.
In that case, the provisioner of the weapons ought to realize what they are doing. Nobody needs to by 10 guns at once. This ought to send up a red flag. It's been estimated that 90% of the guns used in crimes come from shady dealers or theft.
And again, it is ALREADY against the law to do such things.
You might as well say we shouldn't sell kegs of beer, because it leads to binge drinking and DUIs.
My problem is with punishing the law abiding for what the criminal minority does. This is injustice at it it's most foul.
Next thing you know I won't be able to buy fertilizer for my garden, because some people know how to make a bomb out of it.
We should NEVER trade freedoms for a false sense of security.
_________________
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
If you love God, burn a church! - Jello Biafra
When I hear of Schr?dinger's cat, I reach for my gun. - Stephen Hawking
Fear is just another word for ignorance. - Hunter S. Thompson
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yellow_Number_Five
Forum Master
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 10036
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: The 5% Nation
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yellow_Number_Five wrote: | And look, if we are honest about it, MOST guns used in crimes are illegally purchased or stolen outright. There IS a BIG problem with straw purchases of guns in the US - that means that a person with a clean record will go into a store and buy a dozen or so pistols for a convicted felon.
In that case, the provisioner of the weapons ought to realize what they are doing. Nobody needs to by 10 guns at once. This ought to send up a red flag. It's been estimated that 90% of the guns used in crimes come from shady dealers or theft.
And again, it is ALREADY against the law to do such things - for both the purchaser and seller.
You might as well say we shouldn't sell kegs of beer, because it leads to binge drinking and DUIs.
My problem is with punishing the law abiding for what the criminal minority does. This is injustice at it it's most foul.
Next thing you know I won't be able to buy fertilizer for my garden, because some people know how to make a bomb out of it.
We should NEVER trade freedoms for a false sense of security. |
_________________
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
If you love God, burn a church! - Jello Biafra
When I hear of Schr?dinger's cat, I reach for my gun. - Stephen Hawking
Fear is just another word for ignorance. - Hunter S. Thompson
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12846
Local time: 8:07 PM
Location: SoCal, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yellow_Number_Five wrote: | | Yellow_Number_Five wrote: | And look, if we are honest about it, MOST guns used in crimes are illegally purchased or stolen outright. There IS a BIG problem with straw purchases of guns in the US - that means that a person with a clean record will go into a store and buy a dozen or so pistols for a convicted felon.
In that case, the provisioner of the weapons ought to realize what they are doing. Nobody needs to by 10 guns at once. This ought to send up a red flag. It's been estimated that 90% of the guns used in crimes come from shady dealers or theft.
And again, it is ALREADY against the law to do such things - for both the purchaser and seller.
You might as well say we shouldn't sell kegs of beer, because it leads to binge drinking and DUIs.
My problem is with punishing the law abiding for what the criminal minority does. This is injustice at it it's most foul.
Next thing you know I won't be able to buy fertilizer for my garden, because some people know how to make a bomb out of it.
We should NEVER trade freedoms for a false sense of security. |
|
Are you quoting yourself of ego or post count? 
_________________
Namaste,
CET 
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nimitz
Guest
Local time: 2:07 PM
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Chuck Heston also fought those damn dirty apes! (Be nice to Chuck. He doesn't know what planet he's on now.) 
I too support the right to bear arms!
AND bare chests! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12846
Local time: 8:07 PM
Location: SoCal, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nimitz wrote: |
AND bare chests!
|
Que the porn music, CET's about to enter the scene! 
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WildB
Forum Plebian
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 238
Local time: 11:07 PM
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: CCW s need to be looked at as a Fix |
|
|
| When evil is only armed , evil wins. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WildB
Forum Plebian
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 238
Local time: 11:07 PM
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
from OHIO STEVE
OHIO STEVE
Member
Posts: 160
(4/17/07 6:46 pm)
Reply New Post e-mail I just recieved.
"This is a college Columbine."
-Virginia Tech Student, Fox Television News, April 16, 2007
Dear steve,
Yesterday, we witnessed America's worst mass shooting on the campus of Virginia Tech. Thirty-three students and faculty were killed, including the gunman. At least fifteen more were wounded.
How many deaths and injuries must we endure before our nation's elected officials act to end gun violence? We must ask our leaders: "What are you going to do about it?" What are you going to do to make our schools, workplaces, and communities safe from gun violence?
President George W. Bush said yesterday that schools should be a place of "safety and sanctuary for every student," but he and other national leaders do nothing to ensure that safety. They provide condolences, and then do nothing to stop future tragedies.
Eight years ago this week, we watched in horror as students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado fled a mass shooting. Twelve students and one teacher were killed. Just seven months ago, five girls were gunned down in a school in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
These aren’t isolated incidents. February 12, 2007, Salt Lake City: A teen opens fire in a mall killing five and wounding four. On the same day in Philadelphia: Three men fatally shot and a fourth wounded at a board meeting. January 11, 2007, Indianapolis: A man shoots four fellow employees. The list goes on and on.
There are common threads in all of these tragedies — it is much too easy for the wrong people to get high-powered, deadly weapons and our leaders fail to do anything about the problem.
It is urgent that you email or call your elected officials today.
They must hear that you want action to keep guns out of the wrong hands.
Please make as many of these phone calls as you can:
President George W. Bush 202-456-1414
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi 202-225-0100
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid 202-224-5556
The message for all three calls is simple:
It is much too easy for the wrong people to get deadly weapons in this country. It is time for you to take steps to end gun violence to prevent tragedies like the one at Virginia Tech.
If you can't make the calls, you can click here to send an email, which will go to the President, the Speaker, the Majority Leader, as well as your U.S. Senators and Representative. One click will email all six of them.
The Brady Campaign is working nonstop to get the message out that there are solutions to gun violence. We can ban military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips that make it so easy to kill quickly . . . we can require Brady background checks for all gun sales, including at gun shows . . . we can stop large-volume gun sales that supply illegal gun traffickers. These are just some of the steps we can take to make it harder for the wrong people to get guns.
We are building a crescendo of public outcry to ensure that action is taken. We are aggressively rallying support among allies for our solutions. And we need your continued support to make it happen. Please make a contribution now to keep the momentum going. When you do, a generous donor will match your gift.
Gun violence is a solvable problem. We know it won’t be easy. But we can make it harder for the wrong people to get their hands on guns through strong gun laws.
It is time for our nation’s leaders have courage to say "no" to the gun lobby's mantra of any gun, anywhere, at anytime for anyone, while wrapping it in distortions about "freedom" and "liberty."
Americans have the right to live free from the constant fear of gun violence. Please take a moment to forward this email to friends and families.
Thank you for your support.
Sincerely,
Your Friends at StoptheNRA.com
OHIO STEVE
Member
Posts: 161
(4/17/07 6:47 pm)
Reply New Post MY REPLY You guys are total idiots...the GUN did not commit the crime the idiot with the gun did.....How many lives have to be lost before you realize how idiotic you are?.....ONE armed citizen could have stopped the killings yet YOU would have us all walk around unable to defend ourselves against the animals that disregard the laws....I will be making donations to the NRA in the name of the BRADY campaign..... I hope that someday you will understand just how stupid your ideology is and embrace the constitution of our country.
Steve Lewis
one more thing...the shootings occured in a NO GUNS ZONE...do you not realize that the actions of the shooter were ALREADY ILLEGAL!!!! how in the hell is disarming LAW ABIDING CITIZENS going to prevent things such as this? You are simply using a tragedy to advance your agenda which is deplorable.
_________________
That is all....... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Iliketofrolic666
laissez faire, laissez aller, laissez passer
Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 266
Local time: 11:07 PM
Location: Buffalo, NY
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
EDIT: Jerks
Last edited by Iliketofrolic666 on Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23071
Local time: 11:07 PM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
okay, i'll stop bumping it.
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12846
Local time: 8:07 PM
Location: SoCal, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stop bumping the thread Moloth. Trouble maker. 
_________________
Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nimitz
Guest
Local time: 2:07 PM
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Can I bump it for another pic of Selma?
Bump this too! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Live Video and Chat Room
Freethought Videos
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
