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joshuas3521
Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 2239
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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 Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Missionary wrote: | | Well why do you think God calls us little children? because man acts like a 2 yo throwing tantrums. |
The biggest hole in this argument (there are hundreds of them) is the fact that it can be rewritten like this:
1. God exists.
2. We need to not question the world around us because we cannot understand it.
3. Ergo, god exists.
_________________
"What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job." --Carl Sagan
"In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." --Douglas Adams
In memory of George Carlin. May he rest in peace.
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aitm
using the thinker thingy
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 1281
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: Melbourne, Fl
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Missionary wrote: | | Well why do you think God calls us little children? because man acts like a 2 yo throwing tantrums. |
Bull-shit, you, I and everyone who can read knows that if a GOD is present and GIVING you all the shit he claims to have then you do NOT piss on his foot. This is nonsense and you are so flaying about the air. A REAL GOD gets exactly what he asks, NO gods however , get exactly what the bible describes,, that is why,, HELLO!! so many people don't believe it.
Really, you should take a course in reason or logic or some such shit.
_________________
Its not that I question so much whether a god created man, but that he would admit it.- Thomas Brumfield
psst, theres a vagina on your bumper!
Knowledge: The cure for religion.
The reality is: The majority of Christians are, because they have never read the Bible, whereas the majority of Atheists are, because they have. tjb |
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ApostateLois
Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 2066
Local time: 1:07 PM
Location: In space, with a traffic cone
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | From your perspective, you've got some valid points to put God in His place when you meet Him. Unfortunately, yours is of the "me human first" viewpoint that, while popular, has no moral position or authority before the Creator who will judge by His perfect standard. We do not meet that standard and require pardon. |
GOD has a "perfect standard"?? You have GOT to be kidding! I would never dream of burning people alive, drowning them, or otherwise killing them in horrible ways just for displeasing me, yet God does such things in the pages of the Bible very frequently. He is constantly flying into a rage like a child throwing a tantrum, every time things don't go quite the way he wanted them to. When people throw tantrums, we don't love them, we scorn them for being immature jackasses. When people torture other people to death, we don't hold them up for admiration, we regard them with horror and revulsion. If such terrible behavior is not to be tolerated from mere humans, why should it be tolerated from God? Why hold God to a LESSER standard than we hold humans?
_________________
Kryten: Don't you believe that God exists in all things? Aren't you a Pantheist?
Lister: Yeah, I just don't think it applies to kitchen utensils. I'm not a Fryingpantheist. |
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Missionary
Guest
Local time: 3:07 PM
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| aitm wrote: | | Missionary wrote: | | Well why do you think God calls us little children? because man acts like a 2 yo throwing tantrums. |
Bull-shit, you, I and everyone who can read knows that if a GOD is present and GIVING you all the shit he claims to have then you do NOT piss on his foot. This is nonsense and you are so flaying about the air. A REAL GOD gets exactly what he asks, NO gods however , get exactly what the bible describes,, that is why,, HELLO!! so many people don't believe it.
Really, you should take a course in reason or logic or some such shit. |
It's not about logic, it's about reality. "When the cats away the mice do play"
Even in God's continuous presence with Israel there was a semblance or illusion of privacy.
Whether we're talking about 2 year olds, the class when the teacher is out, workers when the boss is away, husbands when on a business trip, or teens when the folks are out of town, the results are often similar. When we know (or think we know) that nobody is looking we make different moral choices. we slow down when we see cops and speed up when their out of sight. This is how people are. This was also the premise for 30 years on Candid Camera. What was so funny and popular about the program is what people would decide when they thought they were alone. Hidden camera tv shows always set up moral dilemmas and most people fail. We laugh at their failure because we understand and relate to being in the same situation.
This is the environment provided for free will to operate in genuine fashion. However, there is a certain limit imposed. We have the knowledge of good and evil and for the most part heed that inner moral code. For those who don't care, society has established protections by law and by force; ie. police, prison, military. So, we have freedom, but not "utter freedom". We have just enough to believe we are not being watched and there will be no consequences.
So it was for Israel. God appeared to them as a cloud by day and fire by night. Surely they became complacent of the cloud's presence and at times, inside a tent, or behind a tree, felt as though they were out of sight of God. Conspiring in the shadows and collectively rebelling in the open. God's mercy was longsuffering and patient. But when correction is ignored and discipline fails, the judgment becomes justified and swift. |
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Missionary
Guest
Local time: 3:07 PM
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| ApostateLois wrote: | | Quote: | | From your perspective, you've got some valid points to put God in His place when you meet Him. Unfortunately, yours is of the "me human first" viewpoint that, while popular, has no moral position or authority before the Creator who will judge by His perfect standard. We do not meet that standard and require pardon. |
GOD has a "perfect standard"?? You have GOT to be kidding! I would never dream of burning people alive, drowning them, or otherwise killing them in horrible ways just for displeasing me, yet God does such things in the pages of the Bible very frequently. He is constantly flying into a rage like a child throwing a tantrum, every time things don't go quite the way he wanted them to. When people throw tantrums, we don't love them, we scorn them for being immature jackasses. When people torture other people to death, we don't hold them up for admiration, we regard them with horror and revulsion. If such terrible behavior is not to be tolerated from mere humans, why should it be tolerated from God? Why hold God to a LESSER standard than we hold humans? |
This is a typical oversimplification of the circumstances followed by an exaggerated knee jerk reaction of an unstable deity.
| Quote: | | II Peter 3.9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promises, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. |
The story goes...Poor trembling man, ever looking about to do good for fear of accidentally stumbling upon some unknown snare-trigger set by God that releases the full fury of His Charles Manson on steroids persona, intent upon harm and delighted by failure as evidenced by His divine maniacal laughter. Ahhh the atheists favorite bedtime story.
While God has declared that the penalty for sin is death, it is in His mercy that by His authority He can prolong carrying out that sentence to the very last possible moment. In the interim He offers correction and discipline to lead man to repentance; atonement for the transgression; and forgiveness for absolution of the charges. When His grace and mercy are repeatably ignored and rejected He is justified in carrying out the sentence that has been prolonged. Mankind continues to live their lives under the false impression that the camera is not on, that nobody is looking, and he moves under impunity of consequence. Not so.
| Quote: | Ezekiel 18.23,32 ‘Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?’ saith the Lord GOD: ‘and not that he should return from his wicked ways, and live?’
‘For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth.’ saith the Lord God, ‘Wherefore turn yourselves, and live.’ |
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aitm
using the thinker thingy
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 1281
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: Melbourne, Fl
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Missionary wrote: | | aitm wrote: | | Missionary wrote: | | Well why do you think God calls us little children? because man acts like a 2 yo throwing tantrums. |
Bull-shit, you, I and everyone who can read knows that if a GOD is present and GIVING you all the shit he claims to have then you do NOT piss on his foot. This is nonsense and you are so flaying about the air. A REAL GOD gets exactly what he asks, NO gods however , get exactly what the bible describes,, that is why,, HELLO!! so many people don't believe it.
Really, you should take a course in reason or logic or some such shit. |
It's not about logic, it's about reality. "When the cats away the mice do play"
Even in God's continuous presence with Israel there was a semblance or illusion of privacy.
Whether we're talking about 2 year olds, the class when the teacher is out, workers when the boss is away, husbands when on a business trip, or teens when the folks are out of town, the results are often similar. When we know (or think we know) that nobody is looking we make different moral choices. we slow down when we see cops and speed up when their out of sight. This is how people are. This was also the premise for 30 years on Candid Camera. What was so funny and popular about the program is what people would decide when they thought they were alone. Hidden camera tv shows always set up moral dilemmas and most people fail. We laugh at their failure because we understand and relate to being in the same situation.
This is the environment provided for free will to operate in genuine fashion. However, there is a certain limit imposed. We have the knowledge of good and evil and for the most part heed that inner moral code. For those who don't care, society has established protections by law and by force; ie. police, prison, military. So, we have freedom, but not "utter freedom". We have just enough to believe we are not being watched and there will be no consequences.
So it was for Israel. God appeared to them as a cloud by day and fire by night. Surely they became complacent of the cloud's presence and at times, inside a tent, or behind a tree, felt as though they were out of sight of God. Conspiring in the shadows and collectively rebelling in the open. God's mercy was longsuffering and patient. But when correction is ignored and discipline fails, the judgment becomes justified and swift. |
This is your answer? This is it? I am talking GOD here and you respond as if your god has the power of a wife or cop or teacher or oh my goodness a hidden TV camera? Man oh man, your reasoning is escapsim wrapped in excuses.
Only a apologist could put GOD the creator of the universe, the benefactor of mankind, the punisher of all evil, grantor of all prayers in the same light as a TV show. Man, what a pathetic god you have.
So, let me put this is in a nutshell, thousands of years ago, your god appeared to a few thousand humans who at that time considered the sky to be water and the sun and moon were considered little lights. They were highly superstitious, fearful, and ignorant. They were literally chased around the countryside by a vengeful god who sent waves of fortune or punishment at his whim upon their heads. Yet they constantly chose to mock him by their less than pious behavior. SO, then your god, DISAPPEARS, never to be seen again. But oddly, we are supposed to fear him now, when those who lived WITH him did not?
OR, the story is just a myth, as is proven by its poorly contrived storyline, written by ignorant goat herders who merely made up stories to hold the attention and obediance of their wayward children. Hmmm, pretty obvious which is true.
_________________
Its not that I question so much whether a god created man, but that he would admit it.- Thomas Brumfield
psst, theres a vagina on your bumper!
Knowledge: The cure for religion.
The reality is: The majority of Christians are, because they have never read the Bible, whereas the majority of Atheists are, because they have. tjb |
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Missionary
Guest
Local time: 3:07 PM
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| aitm wrote: |
This is your answer? This is it? I am talking GOD here and you respond as if your god has the power of a wife or cop or teacher or oh my goodness a hidden TV camera? Man oh man, your reasoning is escapsim wrapped in excuses.
Only a apologist could put GOD the creator of the universe, the benefactor of mankind, the punisher of all evil, grantor of all prayers in the same light as a TV show. Man, what a pathetic god you have.
So, let me put this is in a nutshell, thousands of years ago, your god appeared to a few thousand humans who at that time considered the sky to be water and the sun and moon were considered little lights. They were highly superstitious, fearful, and ignorant. They were literally chased around the countryside by a vengeful god who sent waves of fortune or punishment at his whim upon their heads. Yet they constantly chose to mock him by their less than pious behavior. SO, then your god, DISAPPEARS, never to be seen again. But oddly, we are supposed to fear him now, when those who lived WITH him did not?
OR, the story is just a myth, as is proven by its poorly contrived storyline, written by ignorant goat herders who merely made up stories to hold the attention and obediance of their wayward children. Hmmm, pretty obvious which is true. |
OF course not. But predisposition prevents neutrality or objective reason as evidenced by your failure to read an illustration for what it is, an illustration, without twisting it back to the humanist victim model; which was one of my points. By your logic Jesus reduces faith to literally shriveling fig trees and a describes Himself physically as a wooden door with knobs and hinges. Of course illustrations don't serve this purpose. FWIW God's 'disappearance' is before your eyes not mine. |
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aitm
using the thinker thingy
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 1281
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: Melbourne, Fl
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Illustration? What are you on about now?
My point from the beginning is that the story is bs simply because having an all powerful god standing over you pretty much makes one behave. You claim that if today GOD came out and started granting miracles and tossing out punishment that humanity would turn around and ignore god anyway. Thats crazy and you know it.
The story is a myth, and this is just another perfect point to help make that point. People might misbehave in front of a cop or a teacher, but sure as hell not in front of a GOD.
The only reason you continue to hold your position is you know I am correct and you have no other path to travel. Tis okay. I know son, I know.
_________________
Its not that I question so much whether a god created man, but that he would admit it.- Thomas Brumfield
psst, theres a vagina on your bumper!
Knowledge: The cure for religion.
The reality is: The majority of Christians are, because they have never read the Bible, whereas the majority of Atheists are, because they have. tjb |
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Missionary
Guest
Local time: 3:07 PM
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| aitm wrote: | Illustration? What are you on about now?
My point from the beginning is that the story is bs simply because having an all powerful god standing over you pretty much makes one behave. |
Correct.
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You claim that if today GOD came out and started granting miracles and tossing out punishment that humanity would turn around and ignore god anyway. Thats crazy and you know it. |
Many did obey, but for the majority that's the biblical history of Israel and mankind.
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The story is a myth, and this is just another perfect point to help make that point. People might misbehave in front of a cop or a teacher, but sure as hell not in front of a GOD.
The only reason you continue to hold your position is you know I am correct and you have no other path to travel. Tis okay. I know son, I know. |
Even when Jesus performed miracles and forgave sin right in front of them, they built a cross and nailed Him to it. It would be no different today. In fact Dawkins, Harris, Dennett, and Hitchens are building a brand new cross. The're intent upon killing Him again. |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23071
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Missionary wrote: | | aitm wrote: | Illustration? What are you on about now?
My point from the beginning is that the story is bs simply because having an all powerful god standing over you pretty much makes one behave. |
Correct.
| Quote: |
You claim that if today GOD came out and started granting miracles and tossing out punishment that humanity would turn around and ignore god anyway. Thats crazy and you know it. |
Many did obey, but for the majority that's the biblical history of Israel and mankind.
| Quote: |
The story is a myth, and this is just another perfect point to help make that point. People might misbehave in front of a cop or a teacher, but sure as hell not in front of a GOD.
The only reason you continue to hold your position is you know I am correct and you have no other path to travel. Tis okay. I know son, I know. |
Even when Jesus performed miracles and forgave sin right in front of them, they built a cross and nailed Him to it. It would be no different today. In fact Dawkins, Harris, Dennett, and Hitchens are building a brand new cross. The're intent upon killing Him again. |
you're insane and fucking creepy about it.
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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aitm
using the thinker thingy
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 1281
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: Melbourne, Fl
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Even when Jesus performed miracles and forgave sin right in front of them, they built a cross and nailed Him to it. It would be no different today. In fact Dawkins, Harris, Dennett, and Hitchens are building a brand new cross. The're intent upon killing Him again. |
Can't kill the second time what didn't exist the first time. Hell, I ain't got no good schoolin and I know that!
_________________
Its not that I question so much whether a god created man, but that he would admit it.- Thomas Brumfield
psst, theres a vagina on your bumper!
Knowledge: The cure for religion.
The reality is: The majority of Christians are, because they have never read the Bible, whereas the majority of Atheists are, because they have. tjb |
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Paranoia21
Weird Fish
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 1216
Local time: 11:07 PM
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Missionary wrote: | | Well why do you think God calls us little children? because man acts like a 2 yo throwing tantrums. |
No, the bible calls humans "children", not god. Do you automatically assume that just because the bible exists, god exists?
_________________
VERITAS OMNIA VINCIT
Keep YOUR religion in YOUR churches and YOUR homes and out of OUR government. |
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Missionary
Guest
Local time: 3:07 PM
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Paranoia21 wrote: | | Missionary wrote: | | Well why do you think God calls us little children? because man acts like a 2 yo throwing tantrums. |
No, the bible calls humans "children", not god. Do you automatically assume that just because the bible exists, god exists? |
No. I knew God existed first. Secondly, the bible was pointed to. |
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ApostateLois
Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 2066
Local time: 1:07 PM
Location: In space, with a traffic cone
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Even when Jesus performed miracles and forgave sin right in front of them, they built a cross and nailed Him to it. |
Ooooo, he FORGAVE SIN right in front of them?? Damn, that must have been AWESOME! I mean, think about it. Here I am, minding my own business, when suddenly some guy comes up and says, "I forgive your sins." Holy SHIT, I am totally amazed!!! I am BLOWN AWAY! Forget this rubbish about feeding 5000 people with two fish and an after-dinner mint, this dude just forgave my sins in front of everyone! 'Cause, you know, not just anyone could go around saying "I forgive your sins," no, only a GOD could do that! A god in the flesh! What other explanation could there be??
_________________
Kryten: Don't you believe that God exists in all things? Aren't you a Pantheist?
Lister: Yeah, I just don't think it applies to kitchen utensils. I'm not a Fryingpantheist. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 12:07 AM
Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| joshuas3521 wrote: | | Missionary wrote: | | Well why do you think God calls us little children? because man acts like a 2 yo throwing tantrums. |
The biggest hole in this argument (there are hundreds of them) is the fact that it can be rewritten like this:
1. God exists.
2. We need to not question the world around us because we cannot understand it.
3. Ergo, god exists.
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I would call that a perfectly tight-assed argument...  |
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