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skinny
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 Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Gettin' In Tune wrote: |
| Quote: | | The US stock market barely got a 6% return (negative if you price it in gold). |
What do you mean by pricing it in gold? |
Check this article out. The Dow priced in gold, euros, australian dollar, things...
THE DOW IS CRASHING
A Story in Pictures by Mike Maloney
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/2007/0416.html
skinny
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Gettin' In Tune
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | When you tax something, you make it less desirable. When you subsidize something, more people will want to get in on the action. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Of course. But to test their desired effects requires empirics. |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | They don't need to be tested. They are what will generally happen. |
We know this how? A priori or a posteriori?
| Quote: | | Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Theory and empirics play an eminent role in the Business Cycle. There may be an Austrian explanation for the endogenous BC via monetary shocks, but the BC cannot be explained and understood through praxeology. |
But it is. Ergo, you're wrong. |
Then explain.
| Quote: | | Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Isn't economics the science of choice under scarcity? How does one measure this choice without empirics? |
How does one measure happiness or utility? |
False analogy.
| Quote: | | Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Not all human action is the same. Why are there some developed countries while others are struggling? Can this be explain by praxeology or does this require empirics? |
Praxeology. |
I do not believe that economics can be boiled down to anti-empiricism deduction. Perhaps, one can break down economics to praxeology, but one cannot measure choice without empirics.
Care to explain the discrepancies between the third world and the developed via praxeology? |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | When you tax something, you make it less desirable. When you subsidize something, more people will want to get in on the action. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Of course. But to test their desired effects requires empirics. |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | They don't need to be tested. They are what will generally happen. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | We know this how? A priori or a posteriori? |
A priori.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Theory and empirics play an eminent role in the Business Cycle. There may be an Austrian explanation for the endogenous BC via monetary shocks, but the BC cannot be explained and understood through praxeology. |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | But it is. Ergo, you're wrong. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Then explain. |
Since the business cycle is explained in the Austrian school: you're wrong.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Isn't economics the science of choice under scarcity? How does one measure this choice without empirics? |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | How does one measure happiness or utility? |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | False analogy. |
No it isn't.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Not all human action is the same. Why are there some developed countries while others are struggling? Can this be explain by praxeology or does this require empirics? |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Praxeology. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | I do not believe that economics can be boiled down to anti-empiricism deduction. |
We're not anti-empiricism. We're for using empiricism where it is proper.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Perhaps, one can break down economics to praxeology, but one cannot measure choice without empirics. |
So what?
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Care to explain the discrepancies between the third world and the developed via praxeology? |
It already has been. Perhaps you'd care to research it.
_________________
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Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
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Gettin' In Tune
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Since the business cycle is explained in the Austrian school: you're wrong. |
You are confusing an Austrian explanation with praxeology. Please point out where Menger and Mises argued for the ABCT via praxeology. You can't.
Yes, it is.
| Quote: | | We're not anti-empiricism. We're for using empiricism where it is proper. |
Aren't we picky. Menger and Mises were anti-empiricist, compared to Hayek. Funny how you carefully pick Austrian methodologies.
| Quote: | | It already has been. Perhaps you'd care to research it. |
Care to point me to a study or would you rather provide empty rhetoric? |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Since the business cycle is explained in the Austrian school: you're wrong. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | You are confusing an Austrian explanation with praxeology. |
No I'm not.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Please point out where Menger and Mises argued for the ABCT via praxeology. |
Menger didn't develop one, as far as I recall.
http://www.mises.org/humanaction/pdf/ha_20.pdf
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | We're not anti-empiricism. We're for using empiricism where it is proper. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Aren't we picky. |
Damn right. You don't want to create a strawman, DO YOU?
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Menger and Mises were anti-empiricist, compared to Hayek. |
Funny how you dishonestly shift the goalposts.
Don't ever fucking do that again.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | It already has been. Perhaps you'd care to research it. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Care to point me to a study or would you rather provide empty rhetoric? |
Neither. You have fingers. You can look it up. That's what you get for acting like an assclown.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Gettin' In Tune
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | No I'm not. |
Are you saying that ALL Austrian economists fervently subscribe to praxeology?
I searched the document for 'business cycle'. I Did not find anything.
| Quote: | | Damn right. You don't want to create a strawman, DO YOU? |
Care to explain why Hayek was more acceptive to empiricism than Mises?
| Quote: | | Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Menger and Mises were anti-empiricist, compared to Hayek. |
Funny how you dishonestly shift the goalposts. |
Your shit won't work with me. Either explain yourself or piss off.
| Quote: | | Don't ever fucking do that again. |
Don't threaten me again or I will sick Gnosis after you.
| Quote: | | Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | It already has been. Perhaps you'd care to research it. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Care to point me to a study or would you rather provide empty rhetoric? |
Neither. You have fingers. You can look it up. That's what you get for acting like an assclown. |
What should I google you asshat? |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | No I'm not. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Are you saying that ALL Austrian economists fervently subscribe to praxeology? |
That's the basis of the Austrian School.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | I searched the document for 'business cycle'. I Did not find anything. |
That's odd, since the title of the section is "Interest, Credit Expansion, and the Trade Cycle"
Maybe you need the short-short version in the study guide: http://www.mises.org/humanaction/chapter_XX.pdf
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Damn right. You don't want to create a strawman, DO YOU? |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Care to explain why Hayek was more acceptive to empiricism than Mises? |
I wasn't aware that I needed to.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Menger and Mises were anti-empiricist, compared to Hayek. |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Funny how you dishonestly shift the goalposts. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Your shit won't work with me. |
And your shit won't work with me. Either stop shifting the goalposts or fuck off.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Don't ever fucking do that again. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Don't threaten me again or I will sick Gnosis after you. |
Now that's just scary: a whining little drama-queen crying at me.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | It already has been. Perhaps you'd care to research it. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Care to point me to a study or would you rather provide empty rhetoric? |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Neither. You have fingers. You can look it up. That's what you get for acting like an assclown. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | What should I google you asshat? |
Figure it out. You're an adult now.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Gettin' In Tune
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | No I'm not. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Are you saying that ALL Austrian economists fervently subscribe to praxeology? |
That's the basis of the Austrian School. |
Are you saying that Hayek completely accepts this foundation?
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | That's odd, since the title of the section is "Interest, Credit Expansion, and the Trade Cycle" |
No "business cycle theory" yielded in the search. How odd.
I wonder if you can state why money is non-neutral in your own words.
| Quote: | | I wasn't aware that I needed to. |
As you said above, all Austrians are fervent believers of praxeology. According to this logic, Hayek is not an Austrian. Perhaps, a Chicago School Economists. Where do you place him?
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Menger and Mises were anti-empiricist, compared to Hayek. |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Funny how you dishonestly shift the goalposts. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Your shit won't work with me. |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | And your shit won't work with me. Either stop shifting the goalposts or fuck off. |
Tell me why and how I shifted the goalposts. If not, then fuck off.
| Quote: | | Figure it out. You're an adult now. |
Figure out cooperation. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | No I'm not. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Are you saying that ALL Austrian economists fervently subscribe to praxeology? |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | That's the basis of the Austrian School. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Are you saying that Hayek completely accepts this foundation? |
Is Hayek the be-all/end-all of the Austrian school? Are you going to try that creationist tactic, i.e. Darwin being the be-all/end-all for evolution? Same thing, you know.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | That's odd, since the title of the section is "Interest, Credit Expansion, and the Trade Cycle" |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | No "business cycle theory" yielded in the search. |
The title of the section is "Interest, Credit Expansion, and the Trade Cycle". Perhaps you should read it.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | I wonder if you can state why money is non-neutral in your own words. |
Because a rise in prices caused by an increase in the money supply will depend on where the money increase comes from and where it is directed to. Further, the "price" of things in barter doesn't have any relation to what it is in a money-based system.
Did you have any other stupid tests?
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | I wasn't aware that I needed to. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | As you said above, all Austrians are |
I didn't say that. Perhaps you're confusing what you wanted me to say with what I said. That happens a lot on this forum: people are always confusing what they want me to say with what I said, and then blaming me for not conformin to their fantasy. Not my fault that your fantasy doesn't comport to reality.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Menger and Mises were anti-empiricist, compared to Hayek. |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Funny how you dishonestly shift the goalposts. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Your shit won't work with me. |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | And your shit won't work with me. Either stop shifting the goalposts or fuck off. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Tell me why and how I shifted the goalposts. |
Already did. Stop moving the goalpsts or fuck off.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Figure it out. You're an adult now. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Figure out cooperation. |
Figure out research on your own.
I am not a wet-nurse. I am not a nursemaid. I am not here to hold your hand. I am not here to spoon-feed you. I am not here to do your research for you. I am not here to make it easy for you. It's not my fucking job.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Gettin' In Tune
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Is Hayek the be-all/end-all of the Austrian school? |
No, but you say otherwise. IMO, Hayek was more influential than Mises.
| Quote: | | Are you going to try that creationist tactic, i.e. Darwin being the be-all/end-all for evolution? Same thing, you know. |
Same argument applies to you. Mises is the be-all/end-all. Nice try fucktard.
| Quote: | | Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | That's odd, since the title of the section is "Interest, Credit Expansion, and the Trade Cycle" |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | No "business cycle theory" yielded in the search. |
The title of the section is "Interest, Credit Expansion, and the Trade Cycle". Perhaps you should read it. |
I would love to hear YOUR synopsis of it, but I already know your synopsis.
Listen, I am not going to play quote wars with you.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
I didn't say that. Perhaps you're confusing what you wanted me to say with what I said. That happens a lot on this forum: people are always confusing what they want me to say with what I said, and then blaming me for not conformin to their fantasy. Not my fault that your fantasy doesn't comport to reality. |
Or you can continue to spew out gibberish.
| Quote: | | Already did. Stop moving the goalpsts or fuck off. |
Then explain EXPLICITLY how I moved the goal post and where did I move them from.
| Quote: | | Figure out research on your own. |
Childish and sophomoric.
| Quote: | | I am not a wet-nurse. I am not a nursemaid. I am not here to hold your hand. I am not here to spoon-feed you. I am not here to do your research for you. I am not here to make it easy for you. It's not my fucking job. |
I used to be your ally. I thought we could have a civil conversation if we disagreed, but I guess not.
Later. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Is Hayek the be-all/end-all of the Austrian school? |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | No, but you say otherwise. IMO, Hayek was more influential than Mises. |
He wasn't.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Are you going to try that creationist tactic, i.e. Darwin being the be-all/end-all for evolution? Same thing, you know. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Same argument applies to you. |
No, it does not.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Mises is the be-all/end-all. |
That's not my argument. Did you want to create as large of a strawman as you did, and did you mean to prove me correct about people attributing to me their fantasies about what they thought I should have written, rather than what I actually wrote?
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | That's odd, since the title of the section is "Interest, Credit Expansion, and the Trade Cycle" |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | No "business cycle theory" yielded in the search. |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | The title of the section is "Interest, Credit Expansion, and the Trade Cycle". Perhaps you should read it. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | I would love to hear YOUR synopsis of it |
How's it feel to want?
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Listen, I am not going to play quote wars with you. |
Then perhaps you should chill the fuck out and start acting like a fucking adult.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | I didn't say that. Perhaps you're confusing what you wanted me to say with what I said. That happens a lot on this forum: people are always confusing what they want me to say with what I said, and then blaming me for not conformin to their fantasy. Not my fault that your fantasy doesn't comport to reality. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Or you can continue to spew out gibberish. |
Since I never do spew gibberish....
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Already did. Stop moving the goalpsts or fuck off. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Then explain EXPLICITLY how I moved the goal post and where did I move them from. |
Already did.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Figure out research on your own. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Childish and sophomoric. |
No it's not. It's being an adult and letting you learn on your own. Don't get pissy at me because won't spoonfeed you. You're not entitled to me holding your hand through this. I don't know what the fuck sort of drugs you're on if you believe that I have some fucking obligation to teach you all this shit.
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | I am not a wet-nurse. I am not a nursemaid. I am not here to hold your hand. I am not here to spoon-feed you. I am not here to do your research for you. I am not here to make it easy for you. It's not my fucking job. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | I used to be your ally. |
No, you never were.
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | I thought we could have a civil conversation if we disagreed, but I guess not. |
Yeah--you turned it quite un-civil with your fallacies.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Gettin' In Tune
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | He wasn't. |
He was.
It does.
| Quote: | | That's not my argument. Did you want to create as large of a strawman as you did, and did you mean to prove me correct about people attributing to me their fantasies about what they thought I should have written, rather than what I actually wrote? |
Identify my strawman, you fucktard.
| Quote: | | How's it feel to want? |
*yawn*
| Quote: | | Then perhaps you should chill the fuck out and start acting like a fucking adult. |
If you don't smarten up, then I am placing you in the Munkey category.
| Quote: | | Since I never do spew gibberish.... |
When do you provide substance?
| Quote: | | Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Already did. Stop moving the goalpsts or fuck off. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Then explain EXPLICITLY how I moved the goal post and where did I move them from. |
Already did. |
Got proof?
| Quote: | | No it's not. It's being an adult and letting you learn on your own. Don't get pissy at me because won't spoonfeed you. You're not entitled to me holding your hand through this. I don't know what the fuck sort of drugs you're on if you believe that I have some fucking obligation to teach you all this shit. |
I used you to find you amusing until you tried your JADED bullshit on me. Now I just find you sad.
| Quote: | | No, you never were. |
Actually, I did support you. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Knight of BAAWA wrote: | | That's not my argument. Did you want to create as large of a strawman as you did, and did you mean to prove me correct about people attributing to me their fantasies about what they thought I should have written, rather than what I actually wrote? |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Identify my strawman |
Already did.
| Knight of BAAWA wrote: | | Then perhaps you should chill the fuck out and start acting like a fucking adult. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | If you don't smarten up, then I am placing you in the Munkey category. |
And your estimation of me means what to me?
The problem you and the rest of the whiners is that you get your self-esteem from the validation of you which others give. I, OTOH, don't give a shit what you think of me. But the whiners want me to care about that. It pisses them off to no end that I just don't give a fuck about what they think of me.
| Knight of BAAWA wrote: | | Since I never do spew gibberish.... |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | When do you provide substance? |
All the time.
When you do stop whining?
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Already did. Stop moving the goalpsts or fuck off. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Then explain EXPLICITLY how I moved the goal post and where did I move them from. |
| Knight of BAAWA wrote: | | Already did. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Got proof? |
Yep.
| Knight of BAAWA wrote: | | No it's not. It's being an adult and letting you learn on your own. Don't get pissy at me because won't spoonfeed you. You're not entitled to me holding your hand through this. I don't know what the fuck sort of drugs you're on if you believe that I have some fucking obligation to teach you all this shit. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | I used you to find you amusing until you tried your JADED bullshit on me. |
I never thought about you at all. I suppose that's the difference between you whiners and me: I don't give a fuck about you. I don't care about you. I don't care about your feelings. If you get all sniffy-nosed and teary-eyed: tough. Grow the fuck up.
But don't blame me for your failings. Don't blame me because you're insecure. Don't blame me because you're an idiot. It's not my problem. It's not my fault. I refuse to take responsibility for your incompetence.
| Knight of BAAWA wrote: | | No, you never were. |
| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Actually, I did support you. |
That didn't make you my ally.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Gettin' In Tune
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | The problem you and the rest of the whiners is that you get your self-esteem from the validation of you which others give. I, OTOH, don't give a shit what you think of me. But the whiners want me to care about that. It pisses them off to no end that I just don't give a fuck about what they think of me. |
*yawn* |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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*yawn*
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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