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Ivan_Ivanov
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 Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | I believe you are attempting to claim the short term gains of industrialization as long term gains of capitalism. |
Not really,it was just one example.
But the link between economic liberty and prosperity is quite well established, both empirically and in theory.
So well in fact that you're the one that should give an example of too much economic freedom causing problems.
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It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
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kmisho
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Ivan_Ivanov wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | I believe you are attempting to claim the short term gains of industrialization as long term gains of capitalism. |
Not really,it was just one example.
But the link between economic liberty and prosperity is quite well established, both empirically and in theory.
So well in fact that you're the one that should give an example of too much economic freedom causing problems. |
No doubt there is SOME connection between SOME amount of liberty and SOME amount of prossperity. But to thence conclude that total liberty will lead to pan-prosperity is a leap.
I don't feel particularly compelled to give examples as I am not convinced I have the burden of proof. My views are generally (but not entirely) in line with how things already are.
Tell me how the current mortgage crisis is NOT an example of liberty causing problems? We already touched on this at some point. I laid the blame for this crisis at the feet of the free market itself as an untapped market with the incentive being short term gains for certain individuals, regardless of all exterior consequences...a pattern typical of corporate financial scandals.
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
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Ivan_Ivanov
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | Tell me how the current mortgage crisis is NOT an example of liberty causing problems? |
Because the banking sector is when of the most regulated in the economy, with the central bank engaging in outright central planning, and also bailing out companies that behave irresponsibly.
I started a thread a while back showing how the banks were sometimes outright forced to give out subprime loans, that's one example of how it's not liberty causing problems.
Without the central bank pumping in money, and sustaining the fractional reserve banking system, the interest rates wouldn't have been so ridiculously low, making subprime loans outright impossible.
If the companies knew there was no bailout coming, they'd probably wouldn't tend to make decisions resulting in bankruptcy.
So quite clearly the problem is too much regulations, not too much liberty
_________________
It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
This is not a complex idea. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 11:17 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | No doubt there is SOME connection between SOME amount of liberty and SOME amount of prossperity. But to thence conclude that total liberty will lead to pan-prosperity is a leap. |
Only to the uneducated. Remember: slavery does not lead to prosperity.
| kmisho wrote: | | Tell me how the current mortgage crisis is NOT an example of liberty causing problems? |
Tell me how it is, given that we do have a fiat currency system run by a quasi-federal entity as well as a shitton of banking and mortgage regulations. TELL ME.
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Moloth
In-tool-lectual
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | No doubt there is SOME connection between SOME amount of liberty and SOME amount of prossperity. But to thence conclude that total liberty will lead to pan-prosperity is a leap. |
Only to the uneducated. Remember: slavery does not lead to prosperity. |
Remember: Anarchy does not lead to freedom.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| gnosis wrote: | | Welfare for those who are already rich is equivalent to helping the poor eh? Compassion must be a sin to those who have economics as a religion it seems. |
Oh do fuck off, you sanctimonious little fuckard. What Jason said is correct: welfare is welfare. It doesn't matter if you're stealing from everyone via inflation or stealing from some to give to others: it's all wrong.
But you had to create a fucking strawman. Fuck you, you git.
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| gnosis wrote: | | Taking back that which has already been stolen from you is known as reclaiming. I challenge your assumption that such wealth is legitimate property. |
I challenge your assumption that it isn't.
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 11:17 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | Question for all you economists. How is this going to affect inflation? Since the government is assuming this massive amount of debt and by dropping the interest rates by another three quarters aren't we still just taking all the other industries down with the mortgage industry? |
Yes. The dollar is about to implode.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
Oh do fuck off, you sanctimonious little fuckard. What Jason said is correct: welfare is welfare. It doesn't matter if you're stealing from everyone via inflation or stealing from some to give to others: it's all wrong.
But you had to create a fucking strawman. Fuck you, you git. |
The feeling is mutual. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 11:17 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | Oh do fuck off, you sanctimonious little fuckard. What Jason said is correct: welfare is welfare. It doesn't matter if you're stealing from everyone via inflation or stealing from some to give to others: it's all wrong.
But you had to create a fucking strawman. Fuck you, you git. |
| gnosis wrote: | | The feeling is mutual. |
And you're too much of a coward to even acknowledge your strawman.
Why don't you just stop posting about economics and politics. It's quite clear that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, so do yourself a favor and don't make a fucking fool of yourself.
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Moloth
In-tool-lectual
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23218
Local time: 12:17 PM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | Oh do fuck off, you sanctimonious little fuckard. What Jason said is correct: welfare is welfare. It doesn't matter if you're stealing from everyone via inflation or stealing from some to give to others: it's all wrong.
But you had to create a fucking strawman. Fuck you, you git. |
| gnosis wrote: | | The feeling is mutual. |
And you're too much of a coward to even acknowledge your strawman.
Why don't you just stop posting about economics and politics. It's quite clear that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, so do yourself a favor and don't make a fucking fool of yourself. |
lol, KnoB.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
Why don't you just stop posting about economics and politics. It's quite clear that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, so do yourself a favor and don't make a fucking fool of yourself. |
You obviously know a lot about economics KnoB, but you know dick about politics as an anarcho-capitalist. As I've said before and I'll say again, "free markets" do not exist in a vacuum. Anthropology, sociology and psychology are all at play in politics and you appear to have some difficulty with those subjects.
P.S.
Lick my salty ones. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 11:17 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Why don't you just stop posting about economics and politics. It's quite clear that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, so do yourself a favor and don't make a fucking fool of yourself. |
| gnosis wrote: | | You obviously know a lot about economics KnoB, but you know dick about politics as an anarcho-capitalist. |
On the contrary: I know a lot
| gnosis wrote: | | As I've said before and I'll say again, "free markets" do not exist in a vacuum. |
Meaning what, exactly?
| gnosis wrote: | | Anthropology, sociology and psychology are all at play in politics and you appear to have some difficulty with those subjects. |
No, I don't. But thanks for trying to deflect my valid criticism of you. It just makes you look all the more like a fucking moron.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
On the contrary: I know a lot
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Wow, I'm so fucking convinced by that statement! You have completely changed my opinion about you! [/sarcasm]
By all means, elaborate. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 11:17 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | On the contrary: I know a lot |
| gnosis wrote: | | By all means, elaborate. |
I have been. Have you not been reading? Have your eyes so filled with teary-tears that you can no longer see the monitor?
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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