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Jason_Harvestdancer
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 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| gnosis wrote: | | Jason_Harvestdancer wrote: |
| gnosis wrote: | | You've hit on something important here Jason. Can't you say the same for the conservatives though, for whom "deregulation" is a mantra? |
No. They know the difference and they are lying through their teeth. Liberals don't want to know the difference so they can use a failed semi-regulated system as an example of how an unregulated system fails. |
I think you are overestimating the understanding of cultural conservatives if you are including them in your definition of "conservative". Intelligent economic conservatives such as yourself understand this difference, but don't you think there are at least some cultural conservatives who simply want to jump on the "deregulation" bandwagon without really understanding the economics behind it or the difference between partial/mercantilist and complete deregulation? |
Since you've been reading my blog, I should point out that I'm not an economic conservative since conservatives aren't Nolan conservatives. Some of them, you are right, don't know the difference, but those who take the time out to lead the advocacy instead of merely supporting an ally do know the difference.
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gnosis
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Jason_Harvestdancer wrote: | | Since you've been reading my blog, I should point out that I'm not an economic conservative since conservatives aren't Nolan conservatives. Some of them, you are right, don't know the difference, but those who take the time out to lead the advocacy instead of merely supporting an ally do know the difference. |
Yes, I have been reading your blog and it is quite interesting.
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Last edited by gnosis on Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ivan_Ivanov
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| gnosis wrote: | | What's funny about your statement though is that I was referring to the pro-"deregulation" (that's not really deregulation) Republicans. |
I was aware of that, and honestly there are few people I despise more then them.
They're pimping interventionism while waving the flag of free-markets, so when the crisis comes the free market gets the blame.
I sometimes think that in the long run we'd be better off with outright commies in power then with those frauds. Then if someone suggested to try out deregulation, no one would say "ooh but we already tried that and it failed".
| Quote: | | The only question we're left with is which is a more painful fuck? |
Seems so.
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gnosis
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Ivan_Ivanov wrote: |
I was aware of that, and honestly there are few people I despise more then them.
They're pimping interventionism while waving the flag of free-markets, so when the crisis comes the free market gets the blame.
I sometimes think that in the long run we'd be better off with outright commies in power then with those frauds. Then if someone suggested to try out deregulation, no one would say "ooh but we already tried that and it failed".
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This brings me to a concept I've been batting around in my head. Isn't it sort of counter-intuitive to "deregulate" a government-created institution such as Fannie Mae?
Isn't the best form of "deregulation" just having a private sector company come into existence that does the job better, making the government-created institution obsolete?
If a private sector company were able to do the job better, wouldn't Fannie Mae not even exist at all? Does the government really discourage the formation of private home loan companies that much, that Fannie Mae is the only possible option?
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Ivan_Ivanov
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| gnosis wrote: | This brings me to a concept I've been batting around in my head. Isn't it sort of counter-intuitive to "deregulate" a government-created institution such as Fannie Mae?
Isn't the best form of "deregulation" just having a private sector company come into existence that does the job better, making the government-created institution obsolete?
If a private sector company were able to do the job better, wouldn't Fannie Mae not even exist at all? Does the government really discourage the formation of private home loan companies that much, that Fannie Mae is the only possible option? |
Yes, yes, it shouldn't but since it's a political institution there is no direct link between it's performance and it's existance, not so much "the only possible option" as the most profitable one.
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It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
This is not a complex idea. |
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gnosis
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ivan_Ivanov wrote: |
Yes, yes, it shouldn't but since it's a political institution there is no direct link between it's performance and it's existance, not so much "the only possible option" as the most profitable one.
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Isn't "the most profitable option" the most capitalistic one? I know, I'm conflating capitalism with mercantalism, I suppose. Jason H would call me out on that one. Isn't that what drives mercantalism though? A private party trying to maximize profits will work in collusion with government, and if there is no government, try to create one to collude with.
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| gnosis wrote: | | Partial mercantalist deregulation is still deregulation though, isn't it? |
It's bait-and-switch.
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emo samurai
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Ivan_Ivanov wrote: | | Persuasion wrote: | | However, the trend seems to be one where the lenders actually charge scorned groups more in interest rates instead of actually refusing them loans. |
And could that trend have something to do with the fact that it's illegal to refuse them loans? |
yeah lets let them discriminate against black people despite their otherwise identical socioeconomic status
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| emo samurai wrote: | | yeah lets let them discriminate against black people despite their otherwise identical socioeconomic status |
Yeah, let's force you to always be around your worst enemy. And I mean that in a personal sense, talking directly about you.
IOW: don't be a fucking hypocrite.
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
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"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
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Persuasion
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Ivan_Ivanov wrote: | | Persuasion wrote: | | However, the trend seems to be one where the lenders actually charge scorned groups more in interest rates instead of actually refusing them loans. |
And could that trend have something to do with the fact that it's illegal to refuse them loans? |
It remains the case the lenders could refuse to lend to high risk individuals. Hence, the reason there are credit ratings. All the companies need to do is inform the applicant about the reasons for a denial. The scenario I cited was tightly qualified. Indeed, I was stating the fact that some lenders discriminate on the basis of race. This is evident by the circumstance of lending to a white borrower who has the same credit ratings as the black guy they denied a day before.
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rickcopeland648
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Knight,
The Rick Copeland is wondering if you read the "Harper's" article "The Numbers Racket" by Kevin Pilllips. He would like your input... The Rick Copeland thought the article was interesting... And your "bob"ly interest?. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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The article is correct insofar as the futzing with the figures go. However: to even utilize such a thing as CPI doesn't really give what inflation truly is. You have to look at the monetary inflation first.
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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emo samurai
Black Messiah
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | emo samurai wrote: | | yeah lets let them discriminate against black people despite their otherwise identical socioeconomic status |
Yeah, let's force you to always be around your worst enemy. And I mean that in a personal sense, talking directly about you.
IOW: don't be a fucking hypocrite. |
What, black people are a banker's worst enemy?
Maybe your confederate flag says more about you than I thought.
I unignored you to see what kind of stupid racist shit you could come up with to counter that, and I was not disappointed.
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Those who don't believe in evolution haven't benefited from it.
I didn't outsmart you; you outdumbed me.
Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere is happy.
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Jason_Harvestdancer
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Those who don't bother to think always make the worst assumptions possible from Knight's avatar. Everyone else thinks those people are twits.
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LakeGeorgeMan actually think's I'm Socrates.
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gnosis
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Jason_Harvestdancer wrote: | | Those who don't bother to think always make the worst assumptions possible from Knight's avatar. Everyone else thinks those people are twits. |
It's pretty easy to make the assumption that Knight is full of hate, no matter who that hate is for. I don't think it's too outlandish an assumption. I've just come to the realization that Knight is an "equal opportunity" hater.
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Last edited by gnosis on Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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