| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
aileron
Forum Leader
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 818
Local time: 4:36 PM
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
  |
|
| Confessionalian wrote: | | aileron wrote: | | Confessionalian wrote: | | Making a comment about a video game, how diabolic indeed. |
I could care less about this. You really are dense.
| Quote: | | I sadly fail to see... |
I think there are a lot of things you sadly fail to see. Why don't you go troll somewhere else? |
You're not trying hard enough obviously. |
 On second thought, stick around a while. You're good for some laughs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
|
mawst
Royal Citizen
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 354
Local time: 3:36 PM
Location: MN, United States
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Does anyone know who are true christians? |
|
|
| OUTTHERE wrote: | I debate people all the time. i do pretty good in general, but not matter
many ways i make a solid case that's consistent with the point of view of just about every form of christian i've ever met,
and how many different people i talk to that range from retard to above average intelligence,
each one ultimately declares that the christians i'm criticizing aren't true christians and/or don't understand doctrine, etc.
it always seems to be the fault of that other christian that i am barking up the wrong tree with respect to gods existence
or morality, etc.
Has anyone ever had a christian that listened to your point and just went hmm. i never thought of it that way. |
You may start by scholarly research into the methods the Apostles themselves used to distinguish themselves from Heretics. This can be done through Biblical study. Next, I would suggest the "Apostolic Fathers" and their writings. The Apostolic Church fended off heresy with the same authority the Apostles did in the first century, and it continued as the precedent for Christianity until the 11th century AD. Study of Christianity between the Death of the Beloved Apostle John and the end of the 10th century will give you data, not opinion, on what reality was, and continues to be regarding orthodox Christianity vs it's fall aways.
Regards.
_________________
Apostolic Apologetics
Divinus Mentis
Monsters in the Bible?
"Lord, in my zeal for the love of truth, let me not forget the truth about love" -- St. Thomas Aquinas |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SirThinkALot
Ace Attorney
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 943
Local time: 4:36 PM
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd say a 'true Christian' is one who, at a minimum:
-Believes Jesus of Nazarath was God incarnate, 100% God and 100% human
-Believes Jesus Of Nazarath was crucified for the sins of humanity
-Believes that after the Crucifixion, rose from the dead.
-at least makes an honest attempt to follow Jesus's teachings.
Of course, while this defines who is(or is not) a true Christian, it doesnt mean true Christians cant(or wont) have varied opinions on other subjects, for example: creation/evolution, the relationship between church and state, eschetology, styles of worship, some moral isues ect.
_________________
OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Listening to Richard Dawkins talk about religion is like listening to Ann Coulter talk about the Democratic party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sky;Walker
Forum Master
Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 3232
Local time: 4:36 PM
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wouldn't the TRUE Christian believe the bible word for word? I mean, isn't that how it goes?
If I wrote a book, and said , follow me.
One guy follows it word for word, while another picks and chooses what to follow, wouldn't the first be my TRUE follower?
_________________
| baddogma wrote: | | I despise faith, it is simply glorified ignorance. |
| SalsaShark wrote: | | Religion doesn't provide aid to a weak mind, religion produces a weak mind. |
"Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf the Grey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sky;Walker
Forum Master
Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 3232
Local time: 4:36 PM
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SirThinkALot wrote: | I'd say a 'true Christian' is one who, at a minimum:
-Believes Jesus of Nazarath was God incarnate, 100% God and 100% human
-Believes Jesus Of Nazarath was crucified for the sins of humanity
-Believes that after the Crucifixion, rose from the dead.
-at least makes an honest attempt to follow Jesus's teachings.
Of course, while this defines who is(or is not) a true Christian, it doesnt mean true Christians cant(or wont) have varied opinions on other subjects, for example: creation/evolution, the relationship between church and state, eschetology, styles of worship, some moral isues ect. |
Your sig is so fucking stupid lol
_________________
| baddogma wrote: | | I despise faith, it is simply glorified ignorance. |
| SalsaShark wrote: | | Religion doesn't provide aid to a weak mind, religion produces a weak mind. |
"Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf the Grey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SirThinkALot
Ace Attorney
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 943
Local time: 4:36 PM
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sky;Walker wrote: | Wouldn't the TRUE Christian believe the bible word for word? I mean, isn't that how it goes?
If I wrote a book, and said , follow me.
One guy follows it word for word, while another picks and chooses what to follow, wouldn't the first be my TRUE follower? |
I dont think its NECESSARY to believe the Bible is 100% true to be a Christian(although anybody who did would no doubt qualify as a Christian). Hell even the most hyper-fundies will acknowldge that there is poetic and symbolic language in the Bible. Moderate Christians(like myself) tend to believe that parts the fundies see as 'literal' are not.
_________________
OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Listening to Richard Dawkins talk about religion is like listening to Ann Coulter talk about the Democratic party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SirThinkALot
Ace Attorney
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 943
Local time: 4:36 PM
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sky;Walker wrote: | | Your sig is so fucking stupid lol |
Its true though...
_________________
OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Listening to Richard Dawkins talk about religion is like listening to Ann Coulter talk about the Democratic party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Buckster
Administrator
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 9341
Local time: 4:36 PM
Location: Up North Michigan
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SirThinkALot wrote: | | Sky;Walker wrote: | | Your sig is so fucking stupid lol |
Its true though... |
Show it.
_________________
Yeah... I said that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sky;Walker
Forum Master
Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 3232
Local time: 4:36 PM
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SirThinkALot wrote: | | Sky;Walker wrote: | | Your sig is so fucking stupid lol |
Its true though... |
I don't think they're the same. I mean, so what only religious people should have a say on shit when it comes to their religion? I don't think so. I find that to be absurd.
When you tell me that, it's like saying the only ones who should be able to review an album is the singer. Bleh, I'll pass.
Yes, the person who does follow the bible is no doubt a Christian. In my view, I'd fully back the claim that radicals are more their religion then moderates. Moderates, like yourself are watered downed. You don't believe it fully while the others do. That's a good thing. What I'm saying however, is that the radicals are far more Christian, then you moderates.
_________________
| baddogma wrote: | | I despise faith, it is simply glorified ignorance. |
| SalsaShark wrote: | | Religion doesn't provide aid to a weak mind, religion produces a weak mind. |
"Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf the Grey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Buckster
Administrator
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 9341
Local time: 4:36 PM
Location: Up North Michigan
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SirThinkALot
Ace Attorney
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 943
Local time: 4:36 PM
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sky;Walker wrote: | | I don't think they're the same. I mean, so what only religious people should have a say on shit when it comes to their religion? I don't think so. I find that to be absurd. |
WTF? I did NOT say that, I do think that if you want people to take you seriously(on any subject) you should at least have some knowldge of hte subject you are critiqueing/discussing...for religions that means having some knowldge of what that given religion teaches and believes, and possibly being aware of major inter-faith disagreements. It doesnt mean you hneed to believe it yourself, but at least understand what they actually are saying(as opposed to what you think they are saying) But, really anybody can say anything they want, thanks to a little thing called free speech.
But really what does this have to do with the Richard Dawkins/Ann Coulter comparson?
| Quote: | | When you tell me that, it's like saying the only ones who should be able to review an album is the singer. Bleh, I'll pass. |
I would say to be have your review taken seriously, you should have some knowldge of music in general, the artist and their 'genre' in particular, and possibly the record industry as a whole. It doesnt mean you have to LIKE the album, or artist, but at least understand what the music is about. But even if you dont have that knowldge you could still say whatever you want about the album, because of, you guessed, free speech.
| Quote: | | Yes, the person who does follow the bible is no doubt a Christian. In my view, I'd fully back the claim that radicals are more their religion then moderates. Moderates, like yourself are watered downed. You don't believe it fully while the others do. That's a good thing. What I'm saying however, is that the radicals are far more Christian, then you moderates. |
I dont think its appropiate to speak of somebody being 'more' or 'less' Christian, any more than its appropiate to speak of a woman being 'more' or 'less' pregnant. Either somebody is a Christian, or they are not. My criteria above can help determine if somebody is a Christian.
_________________
OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Listening to Richard Dawkins talk about religion is like listening to Ann Coulter talk about the Democratic party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sky;Walker
Forum Master
Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 3232
Local time: 4:36 PM
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SirThinkALot wrote: | | Sky;Walker wrote: | | I don't think they're the same. I mean, so what only religious people should have a say on shit when it comes to their religion? I don't think so. I find that to be absurd. |
WTF? I did NOT say that, I do think that if you want people to take you seriously(on any subject) you should at least have some knowldge of hte subject you are critiqueing/discussing...for religions that means having some knowldge of what that given religion teaches and believes, and possibly being aware of major inter-faith disagreements. It doesnt mean you hneed to believe it yourself, but at least understand what they actually are saying(as opposed to what you think they are saying) But, really anybody can say anything they want, thanks to a little thing called free speech.
But really what does this have to do with the Richard Dawkins/Ann Coulter comparson?
| Quote: | | When you tell me that, it's like saying the only ones who should be able to review an album is the singer. Bleh, I'll pass. |
I would say to be have your review taken seriously, you should have some knowldge of music in general, the artist and their 'genre' in particular, and possibly the record industry as a whole. It doesnt mean you have to LIKE the album, or artist, but at least understand what the music is about. But even if you dont have that knowldge you could still say whatever you want about the album, because of, you guessed, free speech.
| Quote: | | Yes, the person who does follow the bible is no doubt a Christian. In my view, I'd fully back the claim that radicals are more their religion then moderates. Moderates, like yourself are watered downed. You don't believe it fully while the others do. That's a good thing. What I'm saying however, is that the radicals are far more Christian, then you moderates. |
I dont think its appropiate to speak of somebody being 'more' or 'less' Christian, any more than its appropiate to speak of a woman being 'more' or 'less' pregnant. Either somebody is a Christian, or they are not. My criteria above can help determine if somebody is a Christian. |
oh I'm quite positive Mr. Dawkins knows what he is talking about 
Honestly, someone who follows the bible word for word is a greater follower than the ones who don't.
_________________
| baddogma wrote: | | I despise faith, it is simply glorified ignorance. |
| SalsaShark wrote: | | Religion doesn't provide aid to a weak mind, religion produces a weak mind. |
"Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf the Grey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SirThinkALot
Ace Attorney
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 943
Local time: 4:36 PM
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sky;Walker wrote: | | oh I'm quite positive Mr. Dawkins knows what he is talking about |
When it comes to evolution/creationism, yes. On theology, history and philosophy....not so much.
| Quote: | | Honestly, someone who follows the bible word for word is a greater follower than the ones who don't. |
They may be 'greater'(depending on what you mean by 'greater') but 'more Christian' no.
_________________
OBJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Listening to Richard Dawkins talk about religion is like listening to Ann Coulter talk about the Democratic party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sky;Walker
Forum Master
Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 3232
Local time: 4:36 PM
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SirThinkALot wrote: | | When it comes to evolution/creationism, yes. On theology, history and philosophy....not so much. |
So you think bcuz he's an expert on Evo/create, he can't possibly know anything about Theology? Open your eyes kid. All you have to do with any religion, is find out their histories. I'm quite sure Richard Dawkins would not be arrogant enough to speak without knowing his shit. How absurd.
| Quote: | | They may be 'greater'(depending on what you mean by 'greater') but 'more Christian' no. |
They both are Christian. Kind of like a fan club, one is just more obsessed than the other 
_________________
| baddogma wrote: | | I despise faith, it is simply glorified ignorance. |
| SalsaShark wrote: | | Religion doesn't provide aid to a weak mind, religion produces a weak mind. |
"Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf the Grey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chookrooter
Forum Master
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 5515
Local time: 7:06 AM
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | On theology, history and philosophy....not so much. |
Compared with whom? With me and many of the members here ,possibly not.
Compared with most dogmatic theists I've met in my life, run across on forums and the net generally ,I'd say Dr Dawkins on those matters VS the fundies would be like comparing a 5th grader with an undergraduate,at least. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Chat Room
Freethought Videos
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
