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| Did Jesus Exist? |
| Yes |
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9% |
[ 6 ] |
| No |
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31% |
[ 20 ] |
| He Probably Existed |
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12% |
[ 8 ] |
| I Doubt It |
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33% |
[ 21 ] |
| I Don't Know |
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12% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 63 |
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Isambard
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | Isambard wrote: | That he did. He's mentioned in pagan sources. No was he the son of God or a messiah? Thats the real question.
Id say no to both simply because the evidence is strong that he was an apocalyptic prophet. Seeing as the Earth didnt end 2000yrs ago Id say its a safe bet Jesus was just some guy 
As per Jesus being an egyptian myth id have to disagree. Simply, every other week the Romans would execute some guy claiming to be a prophet or a messiah. Even stuff christians wow at in regards to miracles in the bible (reserrecting the dead, expelling demons, curing illness) is nothing new especially for that time. |
well, Gilgamesh was mentioned in pagan sources, too...
i dunno, i see Jesus as a Paul Bunyon kind of concept. Did Paul Bunyon exist? Well, thats such a weighted question!
I think Jesus was just another 'prophet' out of hundreds or thousands at the time and, because the little cult that claimed him happened to be the one that took off, his name got carried with it. Sure, Paul Bunyon may have been a tall lumberjack... but did he cut down whole forests with a single swing of his axe? did he really have a giant blue ox? did he really raise people from the dead? did he really cure blindness with a touch? did he really multiply bread and fish?
meh. |
Well seeing certain characters of Gilgamesh did exist and was based off of real events, Id say you proved my pt. Now how much of the gospels is attributed to Historical Jesus or 'the christ' is a current debate among biblical scholars. Personally, aside from certain Q passages, the fact that jesus was a jewosh peasant from Nazereth, he got baptised by John the baptist and the fact he was executed on a cross, Id say little is can be said about Historical Jesus
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Composite things are like dreams. Fantasies. Bubbles. Thoughts. Like a dewdrop and a flash of lightning. A new dress and a burning tire. Waves of sand and sinking ships. The shadow of a statue, and an entry in a diary. A brain tumor and an ice cream sundae. We are thus to be recorded. |
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Philosophos
When we look at you, we see an asshole
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 13712
Local time: 12:53 AM
Location: In heaven (everything is fine)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Isambard wrote: | | Personally, aside from certain Q passages, the fact that jesus was a jewosh peasant from Nazereth... |
So I guess you discount the "Nazerene" hypothesis? That he was in fact a Nazerene, and not from a town called Nazereth?
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| r_kamikaze wrote: | | Everytime I see you post I just wanna punch someone. |
| stromboli wrote: | | As always, you make meaningful and thoughtful contributions to the forum. |
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Mr_C
Yoda's only begotten son
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 8412
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Location: Pale Blue Dot
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Isambard wrote: | | Personally, aside from certain Q passages, the fact that jesus was a jewosh peasant from Nazereth... |
So I guess you discount the "Nazerene" hypothesis? That he was in fact a Nazerene, and not from a town called Nazereth? |
Aye, Philososhizzle. Did a town called "Nazereth" even exist 2000 yrs ago? Scholars say 'nay'. |
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dolenzia
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | Here's a question for mythicists: if Jesus was a myth, why Q? That is, why would one of the earliest traditions of a supposedly mythical Christ-figure be in the form of his sayings and teachings? Would not his acts be equally important?
What do you think? |
Clearly Paul didn't know about Q or have access to ANY Gospel sayings or teachings. This is the silver bullet for me regarding mythical Jesus. The silence of Paul is deafening.
Why didn't Mark have any knowledge of Q? Let's say there is an oral tradition of Q, developed from say 33 AD to 63 AD (earliest possible writing of Mark). Mark either chose to completely ignore the "Sayings of Jesus", somehow has not heard them, or is completely making up his legends of Jesus.
It appears Matthew and Luke were written independently, the question is how they both came to use Q?
Was there sufficient time between Mark and Matthew/Luke to convince Christians that indeed, the Q sayings came from Jesus?
Perhaps Matthew informed Luke, although textual analysis does not suggest this. (so i've heard.)
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Bob Price is my hero. |
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Mr_C
Yoda's only begotten son
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 8412
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Man, it would be so cool if Bob Price himself joined our little forum.
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dolenzia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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As you can tell I think Bob Price is a genius.
What's weird is he still goes to Church, kind of like one would go to a Lord of the Rings club. He just likes the mythology of it all. He is a Bible geek, so there you go.
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Bob Price is my hero. |
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Mr_C
Yoda's only begotten son
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, a walking oxymoron: A Christian Atheist.
Heh, that's me too, in the sense that I still go to church. 
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Pagandawn ath.
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tonyman1989
Forum Master
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Posts: 2567
Local time: 1:53 AM
Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | Yes, a walking oxymoron: A Christian Atheist.
Heh, that's me too, in the sense that I still go to church. |
You still go to chruch Mr_C
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"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins |
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dolenzia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Pagandawn ath. wrote: | | Not a chance in hell Jesus ever existed. |
I don't know if I quite agree with those odds, but it does seem likely to me that to me.
I think a reasonable scenario where Paul's Celestial Jesus was "Fleshed Out" in the 2nd Century, and some real life Jesus from the 1st Century was co-opted for the role. There were a lot of Jesus-es floating around the 1st Century BCE and years after, including some who were Messianic in their own way.
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Pagandawn ath.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| dolenzia wrote: | | Pagandawn ath. wrote: | | Not a chance in hell Jesus ever existed. |
I don't know if I quite agree with those odds, but it does seem likely to me that to me.
I think a reasonable scenario where Paul's Celestial Jesus was "Fleshed Out" in the 2nd Century, and some real life Jesus from the 1st Century was co-opted for the role. There were a lot of Jesus-es floating around the 1st Century BCE and years after, including some who were Messianic in their own way. |
Well, the odds may be a bit exaggerated.
Paul's Jesus was certainly a very celestial guy. That is one of our best arguments. And Jesus was certainly fleshed out later on.
Yes, there were many Jesuses floating around. But there is no excuse to assume that any one of them was the biblical Jesus. |
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Mr_C
Yoda's only begotten son
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 8412
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Location: Pale Blue Dot
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| tonyman1989 wrote: | | Mr_C wrote: | Yes, a walking oxymoron: A Christian Atheist.
Heh, that's me too, in the sense that I still go to church. |
You still go to chruch Mr_C |
Yup. Not every Sunday anymore, but about half of them. It's a monumental waste of a good Sunday morning, but it's damn good family time at least. Mostly, it makes my wife feel good, which I'm very in to.
Last Sunday, my wife had to stay home because she's taking her last class before she graduates with her Master's degree (I'm so proud of her!). I ended up taking the kiddos to church by myself. I wouldn't do this if it weren't for her, but I'm in a sensitive situation as far as theology goes within the context of my marriage. I don't expect anybody to understand. It's just something I have to do. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
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Location: Kruskal-Szekeres coordinates
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | I wouldn't do this if it weren't for her, but I'm in a sensitive situation as far as theology goes within the context of my marriage. I don't expect anybody to understand. It's just something I have to do. |
I'm in a similar position, but WIFEY looks like that...
so you can imagine the people staring... |
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Unbeliever
Forum Master
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 3056
Local time: 9:53 PM
Location: The exact center of my observable universe
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Yellow_Number_Five wrote: | | Yeshua |
Gesundheit!
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Lovelock J. (2003) The living Earth. Nature 426, 769-770.
"trickle-down" economics didn't work - instead of trickling down, the money spurted up.
Antheism - without theism
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Moloth
In-tool-lectual
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | tonyman1989 wrote: | | Mr_C wrote: | Yes, a walking oxymoron: A Christian Atheist.
Heh, that's me too, in the sense that I still go to church. |
You still go to chruch Mr_C |
Yup. Not every Sunday anymore, but about half of them. It's a monumental waste of a good Sunday morning, but it's damn good family time at least. Mostly, it makes my wife feel good, which I'm very in to.
Last Sunday, my wife had to stay home because she's taking her last class before she graduates with her Master's degree (I'm so proud of her!). I ended up taking the kiddos to church by myself. I wouldn't do this if it weren't for her, but I'm in a sensitive situation as far as theology goes within the context of my marriage. I don't expect anybody to understand. It's just something I have to do. |
we understand the fact that you're a good husband and father.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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