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| Is the death penatly a just law? |
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| No |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
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not_a_theist
Forum Texan
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 2040
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | Citizen X wrote: | | I don't know how it is in other states, but in Indiana, most death row inmates are on death row in excess of 15 years. What is your definition of a long prison sentence? |
Life with no possibility of parole. Canada tends to have longer prison sentences on average than the USA does and we also have a much lower crime rate, on a per capita basis as well. Canada also has a very low murder rate being around 500 average, and dropping, per year out of 31 million people. |
Did you know that farts in canada smell of roses? And that they wake up in the morning and piss excellence?
Just spreading some facts. 
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FlatEarth1024
Hey, Everybody!
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4098
Local time: 9:19 AM
Location: Dippin' my balls in it.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Death Penalty: Just or Unjust? |
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| hillbillyatheist wrote: | | not_a_theist wrote: | | CET wrote: | | An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. |
Actually an eye for an eye makes the world full of one eyed people. |
 thats a cute hippy saying, it kind of reminds me of "you can't hug with nuclear arms"
anyway I am all for revenge. I think of it like a debt. if you do me a favor, I ow you one in return. if you cause me harm, I owe you some harm in return.
if you punch me in the nose, I will punch you in the nose. seems only fair to me. |
Of all the motives to perform any act...revenge is perhaps the least valid and most potentially destructive.
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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1603
Local time: 5:19 AM
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| not_a_theist wrote: | Did you know that farts in canada smell of roses? And that they wake up in the morning and piss excellence?
Just spreading some facts. |
Another fact is that you're of something other than rose smelling farts. Petty jealousy is not becoming on you.
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FlatEarth1024
Hey, Everybody!
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4098
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Location: Dippin' my balls in it.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| not_a_theist wrote: | | sjc wrote: | | Citizen X wrote: | | I don't know how it is in other states, but in Indiana, most death row inmates are on death row in excess of 15 years. What is your definition of a long prison sentence? |
Life with no possibility of parole. Canada tends to have longer prison sentences on average than the USA does and we also have a much lower crime rate, on a per capita basis as well. Canada also has a very low murder rate being around 500 average, and dropping, per year out of 31 million people. |
Did you know that farts in canada smell of roses? And that they wake up in the morning and piss excellence?
Just spreading some facts. |
Much as I hope this doesn't become another cock-and-ruler contest between the US and Canada, I must say this is among the funniest things I've read in quite some time! 
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sjc
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Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| FlatEarth1024 wrote: | | Much as I hope this doesn't become another cock-and-ruler contest between the US and Canada, I must say this is among the funniest things I've read in quite some time! |
Of course since those, like him, can't compete with real facts.
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not_a_theist
Forum Texan
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 2040
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Location: H-town
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | FlatEarth1024 wrote: | | Much as I hope this doesn't become another cock-and-ruler contest between the US and Canada, I must say this is among the funniest things I've read in quite some time! |
Of course since those, like him, can't compete with real facts. |
Aha...SJC denies his flatulence is of superior quality!!! There really is a god!!
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A liberal is a conservative who has been arrested. A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.
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monkeybyte
Forum Master
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 3487
Local time: 7:19 PM
Location: At E's place for tea.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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On the Death Penalty ep of Bullshit, Penn called "an eye for an eye" the basest of human emotions.
I don't have a problem with that, as I don't have a problem with the death penalty in and of itself.
What can I say? I'm a vengeful bitch.
However, I don't trust anyone in charge of this process. There's human error, conflict of interest/personal agenda, not to mention those potential "signatures" at crime scenes that science has yet to discover for use as evidence (ie:DNA sampling).
When the system fucks up and throws the innocent in prison, there's at least some damage control.
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Citizen X
Forum Plebian
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 185
Local time: 4:19 AM
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Death Penalty: Just or Unjust? |
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| CET wrote: | | A sense of security was also stolen, and you cannot replace that either. |
I agree wholeheartedly. But when one is killed, again depending on the circumstances, but a good example is what took place on the Virginia Tech campus, not only is there loss of life, but there is also a loss in our sense of security. But there simply is no comparison between stealing and killing.
| CET wrote: | | If someone is "broken", you should "throw them away" instead of "fix them"? What happened to "life is precious and cannot be replaced"? |
I agree that life is precious. But I do not believe that all "broken" lives deserve to be "fixed". I believe in replacing the negative energy that is emitted by one that murders with positive energy. I believe that, in some situations, that is not obtained by "fixing" the murderer.
| Citizen X wrote: | | This is the real argument, which is why I disagree with the death penalty in its current state. I believe the law should be "updated" so as to refute certain circumstances from being punishable by death. |
| CET wrote: | | Many innocent people are ramrodded through a system that is judged to be "good" based on the number of convictions. |
Which again is why I disagree with death penalty legislation in its current form. I believe that any one convicted solely on circumstantial evidence should not be punishable by death. I believe that acts of self defense (self defense also needing to be defined) should not be punishable by death. I believe the only acts of murder that should receive punishment by death are those that have been determined to be an act of self gratification, unprovoked, and overwhelming physical evidence (which also needs to be defined - my initial thoughts being DNA, eyewitnesses, videotaped, victim found on accused property, etc.). All other crimes would not be punishable by death.
| CET wrote: | | I don't see anything constructive coming out of him "forfeiting his life". An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. |
I used to believe the same way. Actually, that was when I was a Christian. I know that saying well and I used to swear by it. I no longer agree. I also went through a period before I became a Christian in which I was very gung ho for the death penalty and believed strongly that nearly everyone who committed acts of murder, rape, or molestation deserved the death penalty. Having believed in one extreme or another on many subjects throughout my life, I came to the realization that on most every issue, the real solution was somewhere in between.
In my opinion, there are people who have and will commit acts so heinous that it is necessary for that individual to be removed from existence. There are some individuals that are so brainwashed by their beliefs that it is nearly impossible to influence a positive change. In extreme cases, I do not believe it is worth the time or effort to try and "fix" those individuals. The problem with this line of thinking, is who determines what is an extreme case? And as stated in an earlier post, I only hope that we strongly consider who we put in a decision making position so that wise and intelligent decisions can be made. And we've been very successful at that over the last several decades (sarcasm).
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He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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Citizen X
Forum Plebian
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 185
Local time: 4:19 AM
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | | And for the people who have eventually had their convictions overturned? They would have been dead by the time we found out that they were in fact innocent. How many people would have to die before one decides that system is not workable? |
Again, I don't believe in the death penalty in its current form.
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He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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Citizen X
Forum Plebian
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 185
Local time: 4:19 AM
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | And they put murderers into prisons because they don't value human life.  I think that those, like you are far worse for your putting money over the life of another person, even that of a murderer. |
You made the statement that you think a life sentence is much harsher punishment than execution, implying that you were in favor of the harsher punishment Don't try now and pretend that you are some kind of holier than thou humanist. Someone who is looking for vengeful punishment such as you have suggested is surely at least the equivalent to a murderer.
| sjc wrote: | | Far too many people are sentenced to death who have later been found to be totally innocent. |
Which is why death penalty legislation needs to be reformed.
| sjc wrote: | | Even if only one innocent person is executed it is one person too many. |
I wholeheartedly agree!
_________________
He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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Citizen X
Forum Plebian
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 185
Local time: 4:19 AM
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | Citizen X wrote: | | Since I don't believe in god, Jesus, or heaven, I don't see a loophole. What I do see is the fact that several children and grandchildren lost their mother and grandmother who may have had several good years left in her. And my cousin was allowed to live for nearly 20 years after taking the life of this 82 year old woman. |
So, you're more into revenge than actually into justice? |
I believe this is called an observation.
| Quote: | | He had 3 good meals each day. He lived in his own cell away from the population. He was allowed to go outside for one hour each day. He was allowed to read, watch tv, and to take up certain hobbies to abide his time. |
So, you're one of those clueless people who don't know what it means to lose one's freedom and mistakenly believe that prisons are really all expense paid resorts?
Do you see any statement made by me suggesting that he was living in a resort? I have simply shown how he continued to live his life, and the victim has not.
| Quote: | | He had no worries of being attacked, raped, or killed by other inmates since no one was allowed near him. If this is your idea of justice, then you and I will simply have to agree to disagree. |
Spend some real time in a prison and come back and say that, fool.[/quote]
Apparently you know nothing about death row in the State of Indiana. All death row inmates are kept in isolation. Are you 2 years old, throwing out "fool"? I had no idea I was debating an infant.
_________________
He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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Specus_Meretricis
Peddler of Bombast
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 2754
Local time: 5:19 AM
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Citizen X wrote: | | sjc wrote: | | Citizen X wrote: | | Since I don't believe in god, Jesus, or heaven, I don't see a loophole. What I do see is the fact that several children and grandchildren lost their mother and grandmother who may have had several good years left in her. And my cousin was allowed to live for nearly 20 years after taking the life of this 82 year old woman. |
So, you're more into revenge than actually into justice? |
I believe this is called an observation.
| Quote: | | He had 3 good meals each day. He lived in his own cell away from the population. He was allowed to go outside for one hour each day. He was allowed to read, watch tv, and to take up certain hobbies to abide his time. |
So, you're one of those clueless people who don't know what it means to lose one's freedom and mistakenly believe that prisons are really all expense paid resorts?
Do you see any statement made by me suggesting that he was living in a resort? I have simply shown how he continued to live his life, and the victim has not.
| Quote: | | He had no worries of being attacked, raped, or killed by other inmates since no one was allowed near him. If this is your idea of justice, then you and I will simply have to agree to disagree. |
Spend some real time in a prison and come back and say that, fool. |
Apparently you know nothing about death row in the State of Indiana. All death row inmates are kept in isolation. Are you 2 years old, throwing out "fool"? I had no idea I was debating an infant.[/quote]
No. You attempting to debate SJC, which in Canada will earn you the death penalty. Or at least make you giggle a lot. |
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Citizen X
Forum Plebian
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 185
Local time: 4:19 AM
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Specus_Meretricis wrote: | | No. You attempting to debate SJC, which in Canada will earn you the death penalty. Or at least make you giggle a lot. |
Was he fondled by a death row inmate in an American prison?
_________________
He flexed his muscles to keep his flock of sheep in line
He made a virus that would kill off all the swine
His perfect kingdom of killing, suffering and pain
Demands devotion, atrocities done in his name |
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Specus_Meretricis
Peddler of Bombast
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 2754
Local time: 5:19 AM
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Citizen X wrote: | | Specus_Meretricis wrote: | | No. You attempting to debate SJC, which in Canada will earn you the death penalty. Or at least make you giggle a lot. |
Was he fondled by a death row inmate in an American prison? |
Hehe...well I am sure that is the spin he would like to put on it!
If you totally ignored SJC through out this thread, this is probably one of the more interesting debates I have seen on here. Almost everyone is bringing a good point to the table and there is very little knee jerk reactions. |
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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1603
Local time: 5:19 AM
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| not_a_theist wrote: | | Aha...SJC denies his flatulence is of superior quality!!! There really is a god!! |
Yeah, real mature....
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America is not worth the effort anymore. RIP. It was suicide. |
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