Dawkins goes a tad overboard, again

actualrationalist

Heres the Q & A session with Dawkins

http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/article2037496.ece

"Do you consider parents forcing children to accept their religion a form of child abuse?"

Dawkins: "Yes. What would you think of parents who forced their children to accept their politics, or their taste in architecture? Have you ever heard anyone speak of a "Leninist child" or a "Postmodernist child"? Of course not. Why, then, do we all go along with "Christian child" and "Muslim child"? Such labelling of children with their parents' religion is child abuse."

that is definitely jumping the gun, parents teaching children their religion = Child Abuse? WTF. By force, I am assuming he is not talking about holding a gun to a childs head saying to accept jesus, rather the parent takes him/her to church. Its no different then passing the morals held from their family for generations or w/e.

I also highly contest Dawkins response by this question

"You fail to make any distinction between organised religion (which can be dangerous) and an individual's 'belief in God' (which harms no one). Why do you seem incapable of separating the two? GARY HOWE, By e-mail"

Dawkins: "Of course I am capable of separating the two. But whether beliefs are dangerous or harmless is not the only interesting basis for separating them. There is also the little matter of whether they are true. Scientists care about such things."

I am pretty sure the guy stated just one belief and that is "Belief in God" not belief in blowing things up, belief in literal bible. one personal belief in just a God could not be "dangerous". And the matter of if its true shouldn't have any effect on him being able to discern Organized religion from Belief in God.
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Moloth · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject:

good. you're precisely the kind of person that statement should bother.

So, you have NO problem instilling the fear of an all-watching, vengeful, invisible force that will send you to an eternity of pain and suffering if you do not do exactly what it tells you to? You don't think presenting myths, legends, parables and delusions as being real to a child is harmful?

Its like teaching your child that Santa Claus is real and a scientific fact... and never letting up on it. Now that child is grown and taking that nonsense into the world with him. That is a HUGE disservice and is blatantly dishonest.

reread what he says here: "Of course I am capable of separating the two. But whether beliefs are dangerous or harmless is not the only interesting basis for separating them. There is also the little matter of whether they are true. Scientists care about such things."

he cares about the truth and what is real. he (rightly) see ANY sort of delusion as being inherently unhealthy. It doesn't matter if you have a personal belief in God, Yahweh, Zeus, Osiris, Odin or Xenu. they are ALL fictional and non-existent.

as he says, scientists are concerned about such things as truth and existence.

EDIT: AR, if you don't mind me asking, where did you get that link from? Digg.com?
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total

neon · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject:

I still remember being scared out of my gourd when a nun told me I'd go to hell if I ever missed Sunday Mass, that there was a special place in hell reserved for liars, and that hell really was a burning place full of fire. I couldn't have been more than 10 or 11 at the time.

Yep, I'd say that qualifies as child abuse.
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Mr_C

Moloth · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject:

Telling a child: "yes, there might be something out there we don;t understand"

is very different from:
"yes, we know EXACTLY what God wants and if you don't do what we tell you (God told US what to you, you're not good enough for him to talk to directly) he'll send you to Hell for all eternity"
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total

actualrationalist · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject:

Mr_C · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject:

I forgot to say, "Thanks" for posting the link. I enjoyed the read.
Just a couple of points beyond that:

actualrationalist · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject:

I also strongly disagree with
Dawkins:"It was hard to be an atheist before The Origin of Species. "

There have been atheists since "The fool hath says in his heart God doesn't Exist"

Voltaire was long before origin of Species and many doubted before him.

those people chose it.
_________________
"A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion."

-Francis Bacon

actualrationalist · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject:

" I would rather leave the red herrings out of it, if it's all the same to you. Also, I would much rather debate Dawkins' point about how it doesn't matter whether a belief is dangerous or not, what matters is truth. But if you would like to debate God's existance, I'm sure I'm up for it. "

no intentions, pointless

"So the only ones that don't exist are the falsifiable ones? "

just saying you won't be able to disprove the ones with beliefs like God left the world after he created it.

"But is it TRUE? "

no one can ever be 100% about anything in life. Not even science is 100% sure about anything.

"For the last time, he can! Please, I'm begging you, re-read his quote! I'll even quote him at the bottom of this post so you can re-read it, ok?"

He said hes capable of it, I fail to see him ever do it because he makes his original idea null, please calm down, I understood what I was doing before it was typed.

"Of course he pairs them together! Would you have him address Christianity without addressing Yahweh? Islam without addressing Allah? The point is that these people are religious in the NAME of their Gods, and it is this fundamental truth that makes the religious so dangerous! Dawkins would rather eliminate God and religion in one fell swoop than try to methodically operate on religion without touching people's imaginary friends. It's easier and more affective to take an atheistic approach rather than an anti-religious approach. "

just believing in god does not pair you to agree with all the teachings in the bible.
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Mr_C · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject:

Mr_C · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject:

As for your other post, I don't see this going anywhere. Thanks again for the link.
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Summary: Just play nice, mmkay?

actualrationalist · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject:

fair enough
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"A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion."

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Nimitz · Guest Local time: 6:10 PM

The indoctrination of a child into a religious cult is child abuse?
What else would you call it?

neon · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject:

Yeah, how many people aren't forced to go to church as kids, from infancy on? I say forced because anything you do to a very small child, you pretty much do without their permission-- unless you consider a toddler to have the will to resist an adult. Rolling Eyes

And how many children are given a choice of religions? How many parents bring their kids to every church or temple they can find, and then say, "Okay, you decide"?

Shocked

Dawkins was right on the money.
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actualrationalist · Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:21 am Post subject:

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