Coming out to my parents over break

Bardolph86

Like many of you, I was raised in a christian home. I've been an atheist a few years now I guess, but never have come right out and said it. So that's my plan for winter break. I don't need any convincing myself, it's beyond obvious to me that religions are bullshit, but I need to have some really solid arguments because I know they'll want to discuss it and despite their supernatural belief they are very smart people. Could someone recommend some good sources for reading up on the origins of biblical stories? I know the dead sea scrolls are a good one, but christians seem to see the dead sea scrolls as actually being an argument for their side, and we'll just get stuck if I don't actually know enough about the origins. So what's some good stuff to look into?

baddogma · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject:

What does the bible have to do with atheism?

I'd rather invest in a good Dawkins book than examining the roots of mythology.

Bottom line is God didn't write the bible. Nuff said.
_________________
Just as a magician is the least likely to believe in magic, those that are least likely to believe in the supernatural, are those that most understand the natural.

A prayer for men:
I'm a man......I can change....if I have to.....I guess....-Red Green

baddogma · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject:

Good luck in your coming out.
Just remember, the burdon of proof is on them!
_________________
Just as a magician is the least likely to believe in magic, those that are least likely to believe in the supernatural, are those that most understand the natural.

A prayer for men:
I'm a man......I can change....if I have to.....I guess....-Red Green

lumpymunk · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject:

You should wait until after the Solstice, so they don't go fucking crazy and hold out gifts from you.
Be smart! LoLz

I still think the best book as far as comprehensive coverage of arguments goes on the stubject is "Atheism: The Case Against God" By George H. Smith... so you could start there if you want.

I think the best account I've read for the actual evolution of religious thinking is in Daniel Dennets' "Breaking the Spell."

Free Movies you could check out by searching Google:
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
Search Google For:
"The Virus of Faith"
"The God Delusion"
"The Enemies of Reason"
"Growing up with the Universe"
"Sam Harris" All of his presentations on the subject are good.
Chadag did a really good video on Noah's Ark
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ojygkX_U0
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com will tell you everything you'll ever need to know about the bible.
Infidels.org goes into just about everything you could think of...

GL
_________________
“Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!” ~ B.Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfd0_7BcU-0

VinceNoir · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject:

I thought this was another kind of coming out when I read the title.
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Kindly stick your Quran/Bible/Torah up your holier-than-thou arsehole you square.

Bardolph86 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject:

No, I am not gay (it's a sin, hellooooo!)

josephpalazzo

redraiderdude187

Unbeliever · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject:

Here's a page full of arguments against the existence of God:

http://nullgod.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html

For the origins of biblical stories, try 101 Myths of the Bible.

Oh, and if you're going to come out as an atheist, you might want to wait until after Christmas!
_________________
God Not Found
When voting becomes a business, only businesses will get to vote.

lumpymunk · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject:

So your mom reads these forums now I guess huh.
and now that you wrote all that out, she knows your username. Comfortable with that?
_________________
“Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!” ~ B.Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfd0_7BcU-0

redraiderdude187 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject:

Wander · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject:

I must agree that you shouldn't go on the offensive unless your parents bring up a debate themselves. Explain how you were not bribed or forced into your beliefs but came to such a conclusion by research, experiment, etc. Help them understand that this is your choice, you're old enough to form your own opinions, and that they should respect that. Again, DO NOT attack their beliefs unless you must.
_________________
Regarding creationists: Aren't these the same people who gave us alchemy and astrology, and who told us the earth, besides being flat, was at the center of the universe? Why don't we just kill these fucking people? ~George Carlin

Mr_C · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject:

I've been going through some SHIT - let me tell you.

Ever since I lost my faith, I've basically had to keep my mouth shut about it for fear of seriously damaging my relationship with my wife. To my point, for the past year and a half, my wife has thought that I still basically believed in God, but just lacked belief in religion. Why? Because when I came "out" to her, she couldn't stand it and threatened divorce. She even called her dad, who is a very strong Christian.

Four days ago, I confessed to her that I had no faith at all, which (I learned later) she STILL took to meaning that I still basically believed in God but wasn't a Christian anymore. Regardless of her misconception, she was still very, very disappointed.
True to the (overall wonderful) form of our marriage, we talked it out and she made it known that she would love me regardless of where I was at with religion. The next three days were blissful to me. I thought that she understood that I didn't believe in God but was willing to live with our differences, and our relationship was just wonderful. For the first time in well over a year, I didn't feel like my mouth was duct-taped shut, and I didn't feel the threat of divorce looming over our relationship.

Then last night happened.

We were just talking normally when the topic of God came up. I told her that I didn't believe in God because I just didn't think there was any evidence for God.

She flipped.

We stayed up until 1:30 am, me being sweet and loving and comforting to her, and her saying things like "You don't know what that means!" when I told her I loved her. She simply could not cope with the idea that I didn't "believe in a God of any kind". She couldn't believe that I thought that our lives and our marriage were just "chance", etc, etc.

Over the course of the night, I had drank 3 beers and had taken a sleeping pill before this topic even came up, at about 9pm. I was in no emotional or physical state to take the emotional beating that I took last night for simply lacking a belief in God.

There is a bright side - we ended the night holding each other, and when we got home from work today, we kissed each other and held each other for a long time. She's still noticeably upset/sad/depressed that her husband doesn't believe in God, but hopefully we can work through that soon enough.

Tonight she was exhausted from working a long day after getting so little sleep, so we decided not to talk about it and she is sleeping as I write this.

I said all that to say this - going into the conversation with a whole lot of typical atheistic arguments will not do you ANY bit of good. The best approach with family (believe me I know this from trial and error, ie experience) is to simply say that you don't see any evidence for God but that you are open to the possibility. Come at your family in a loving way and pray (just kidding) that they take the hint and use the same, loving approach.

You can use all the logical arguments that you want to, but in the end it will just be an argument that separates you and your family rather than achieving your goal, which is to let them into your world and let them know that you differ from them on this one subject.

If you do decide to go at them with all sorts of arguments (or if a heated discussion occurs as a natural part of the conversation), just remember my advice and try not to seem to "hard line". Your goal should not be to de-convert them just as theirs shouldn't be to re-convert you.

Okay, I'm done. Glad I got that off my chest.
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not_a_theist · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject:

Mr_C,

I totally agree with your sentiments. I too have had a similar experience to yours. I had a girlfriend for 3 years, her being a Christian, and me being a heathen...I mean atheist.

Using the typical arguments that we might use here on the forums will do you no good with loved ones. As much as it sucks and is not the case, they will take it as an emotional attack upon themselves rather than upon the specific beliefs. Therefore having the typical arguments will only cause a wedge between you. Over time I came to this realization, and ceased bringing up the subject.

Unfortunately we recently broke up, mainly over other reasons (although I stll think religion did play a part). I do still love her, and would probably get back with her given the chance, but a part of me does think that our religious differences would have become a larger issue in the future (as much as I was willing to try to make it not the case). So maybe it really was for the best.

I do feel for you though, and will be 'wishfully hoping' for you and your wife to work things out. Smile

_________________
A liberal is a conservative who has been arrested. A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.

Gettin' In Tune · Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:30 am Post subject:

People who are raised christian do not become atheist overnight nor through the course of a single conversation. I was raised in a non-religious household and bounced around from atheism (via revulsion of revealed religion) and agnosticism while I lived under my parents' roof. Then I stumbled onto deism and built a belief system around it. As a few members here know, I did not give up my belief system without resistance even though it was far from supernatural.

People, even intelligent people, build up belief systems for various reasons. I think it is our human nature to thirst for truth. Unfortunately, our thirst is not quenched nor maybe will ever be.

My point is, don't expect to sway your parents overnight. However intelligent they are, they built up a false belief system that they won't concede easily. Forums like this are a great to release the bullshit that you have to put up with at times. This forum is great for attacking every conception of god. No conception of god holds. The god conception either breaks down empirically or theoretically at some level. Whatever your parents throw at you, bounce it around on us.

Remember that these are your parents, they love you, like you love them. There is no reason to start a war over what god is or is not with loved ones. Enter the conversation with honesty. If they pose a hard question, say "I do not know". This is not going to get resolved over your break. You are entering into a process and not an event.

Good luck and enjoy your break.

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