Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 3716 Local time: 2:36 AM Location: Cin City, OH!
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:35 am Post subject:
SpecterOpacus wrote:
Define "loaded." I am new to a proper teaching of logic. >_>
With the drugs thing, I think we're talking strictly about subjective experience, not about objective truth value. The people who make claims about experiencing God are claiming that their subjective experiences are relevant to a discussion of objective truth.
SpecterOpacus wrote:
Well... right. Stating that someone can't understand because you lack proper explanation sounds like a fallacy to me.
And if it is a fallacy, someone tell me what it is. >_> Appeal to ignorance? Idfk.
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 217 Local time: 11:36 AM Location: us
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:36 am Post subject:
Eyedunno wrote:
SpecterOpacus wrote:
Define "loaded." I am new to a proper teaching of logic. >_>
With the drugs thing, I think we're talking strictly about subjective experience, not about objective truth value. The people who make claims about experiencing God are claiming that their subjective experiences are relevant to a discussion of objective truth.
SpecterOpacus wrote:
Well... right. Stating that someone can't understand because you lack proper explanation sounds like a fallacy to me.
And if it is a fallacy, someone tell me what it is. >_> Appeal to ignorance? Idfk.
This was actually in 2001. Than verified in 2004, 2005, and 2006.
There have been a number of other studies which also verify the common understandings of weed use... terrible memory for example.
Moreover... the common arguments that smoke tobacco or drinking alcohol is just as harmful... the reality is that sure they are... Perhaps we should ban those also? Currently the problem with that is that it's not a popular ban... so what you have to do is get people off of these and than do it... when very few people are actually doing these substances.. than we ban them. Such as in Ontario we've made it so you basically cant smoke indoors in public places... most people are infact inside office buildings and bars and such... people are suddenly unwilling to keep smoking cigarettes and quit. They become much more healthy. We than have also seen a significant drop in people actually smoking. If we were to ban them now... people would be pissed off... there are still too many... but it would be a successful ban.
Now we also have to address... Marijuana use is banned for the exact same reason Galactogil or Santi Bovine Penis Erecting Capsules.
Galactogil is promoted as a natural product to stimulate lactation in nursing mothers. The bacteria found in Galactogil may cause a variety of adverse effects, such as pneumonia and blood poisoning.
Santi Bovine Penis Erecting Capsule is promoted for the treatment of erectile dysfunction. Unsupervised use of sildenafil by patients with heart disease can result in serious cardiovascular side-effects such as sudden cardiac death, heart attack, stroke, hypertension, chest pain and abnormal heartbeat.
The reality is... you will be hard pressed to getting weed or Galactogil into to Canada or USA... if you happen to smuggle it in... chances are... you can do the drugs without much of a worry of being arrested for doing these...
The usa has gone insane on their stupid little war on drugs... the reality is... marijuana has failed and would fail once again if tried to be marketed as a product... just as the 2 examples above would fail. Plus the thousands of other examples of foreign products failing testing and actually being quite harmful to your health. Not to mention the loads and loads of products which never ever make it to the market in north america.
If you want to make marijuana legal... you have to basically approve all these other illegal drugs.
Just an example of an in country drug which has been denied...
Anyone who follows House... you hear about Lupus the autoimmune disease. There is a drug called Rituxan is a drug to treat it. It unfortunately is quite effective... but it's actually illegal in Canada... at least just as illegal as Marijuana. There are doctors who are capable of prescribing this drug for other uses.. such as rheumatoid arthritis... just as Marijuana is capable of being prescribed to people with MS and such. _________________ A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
This was actually in 2001. Than verified in 2004, 2005, and 2006.
There have been a number of other studies which also verify the common understandings of weed use... terrible memory for example.
Moreover... the common arguments that smoke tobacco or drinking alcohol is just as harmful... the reality is that sure they are... Perhaps we should ban those also? Currently the problem with that is that it's not a popular ban... so what you have to do is get people off of these and than do it... when very few people are actually doing these substances.. than we ban them. Such as in Ontario we've made it so you basically cant smoke indoors in public places... most people are infact inside office buildings and bars and such... people are suddenly unwilling to keep smoking cigarettes and quit. They become much more healthy. We than have also seen a significant drop in people actually smoking. If we were to ban them now... people would be pissed off... there are still too many... but it would be a successful ban.
Now we also have to address... Marijuana use is banned for the exact same reason Galactogil or Santi Bovine Penis Erecting Capsules.
Galactogil is promoted as a natural product to stimulate lactation in nursing mothers. The bacteria found in Galactogil may cause a variety of adverse effects, such as pneumonia and blood poisoning.
Santi Bovine Penis Erecting Capsule is promoted for the treatment of erectile dysfunction. Unsupervised use of sildenafil by patients with heart disease can result in serious cardiovascular side-effects such as sudden cardiac death, heart attack, stroke, hypertension, chest pain and abnormal heartbeat.
The reality is... you will be hard pressed to getting weed or Galactogil into to Canada or USA... if you happen to smuggle it in... chances are... you can do the drugs without much of a worry of being arrested for doing these...
The usa has gone insane on their stupid little war on drugs... the reality is... marijuana has failed and would fail once again if tried to be marketed as a product... just as the 2 examples above would fail. Plus the thousands of other examples of foreign products failing testing and actually being quite harmful to your health. Not to mention the loads and loads of products which never ever make it to the market in north america.
If you want to make marijuana legal... you have to basically approve all these other illegal drugs.
Just an example of an in country drug which has been denied...
Anyone who follows House... you hear about Lupus the autoimmune disease. There is a drug called Rituxan is a drug to treat it. It unfortunately is quite effective... but it's actually illegal in Canada... at least just as illegal as Marijuana. There are doctors who are capable of prescribing this drug for other uses.. such as rheumatoid arthritis... just as Marijuana is capable of being prescribed to people with MS and such.
Please read the first post, I am not making a case saying marijuana is harmless, I am making the case that the DEA is lying to people about this drug and is preventing it from being properly researched as a medicine. Check the medicinal link, over 300 uses for the cannabinoids in cannabis that can be used from coping with aids to cancer treatment, not to mention asthma attacks)
And for the gateway drug theory, do the research, 83% of cannabis users have never tried cocaine (which is the number 1 followup drug to cannbis according to the DEA). _________________
My Blog: http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=31
Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 3716 Local time: 2:36 AM Location: Cin City, OH!
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:00 am Post subject:
Enemy_of_Real1ty wrote:
Whats your opinion on blunts?
They're the worst, and I like normal cigars (if they're good cigars).
Fake quote:
Enemy_of_Realty wrote:
Whats your opinion on munky99999?
He's a troll who should probably have every aspect of his life monitored and micromanaged by bureaucrats (at his own expense, of course!), since he doesn't seem to have a problem with that line of thinking when it applies to others. But it's for your own good that I'm suggesting this, munky99999!
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 217 Local time: 11:36 AM Location: us
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:04 am Post subject:
Eyedunno wrote:
Enemy_of_Real1ty wrote:
Whats your opinion on blunts?
They're the worst, and I like normal cigars (if they're good cigars).
Fake quote:
Enemy_of_Realty wrote:
Whats your opinion on munky99999?
He's a troll who should probably have every aspect of his life monitored and micromanaged by bureaucrats (at his own expense, of course!), since he doesn't seem to have a problem with that line of thinking when it applies to others. But it's for your own good that I'm suggesting this, munky99999!
Blunts are very harsh, I moved to blunt wraps, they are much easier on the lungs and come in flavours like appletini lol.
Its ok, everyone is allowed to voice their opinions, he voiced his, I showed him where to look, now we see if he changes it. _________________
My Blog: http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=31
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4671 Local time: 11:36 AM Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:14 am Post subject:
Quote:
Please read the first post, I am not making a case saying marijuana is harmless,
Alright fine... I'll go check it out.
Quote:
I am making the case that the DEA is lying to people about this drug and is preventing it from being properly researched as a medicine.
Um... against insane war of drugs... but research isn't really being hindered... those who actually do research can do it. There are security conditions... just as anyone who wants to research anthrax will have redtape to cut through. The reality is that many researchers have no interest in researching pot... the same reason they dont research weed is the same reason they aren't researching Horseshit for the cure to cancer. It's not there.
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Check the medicinal link, over 300 uses for the cannabinoids in cannabis that can be used from coping with aids to cancer treatment,
Notice the way you type this... it's quite actually revealing. The reality is that in Canada we have authorized marijuana to be prescribed for such reasons.
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not to mention asthma attacks)
So a person is having an asthma attack and you're telling me that smoking on a joint is actually good for it? Ya do I look like a massive motherfucking retard....
Quote:
And for the gateway drug theory, do the research, 83% of cannabis users have never tried another illegal drug.
You haven't heard of biased samples before have you? the reality is that in real polls show that it is infact a gateway drug. There is no causal relationship so basically your article against it is basically refuted. Not to mention your source
Furthermore your poll is testing for Cocaine and heroin... what a biased bullshit study... the gateway theory doesn't specify those drugs... the gateway theory also includes shrooms and acid... or others. The sheer fact that they specified cocaine and heroin and not shrooms or acid... screams bullshit. The reality is... many people who do marijuana will go over to shrooms or E or acid. While completely avoiding cocaine and heroin.
I think basically on that point alone basically verifies and proves the vast multitude of polls which do show that it is a gateway drug... obviously not in a causal manner...
The point of gateway drug is meaningless because it's only really begging the question... do you want to ban something which tends to lead to something bad? Well no...
The real argument to make is... if you are going to legalize this drug... you might as well legalize the HUGE number of other illegal drugs which aren't well known... Such as Galactogil. Since that drug may arguably be safer than marijuana is. In doing that... you are basically creating a HUGE amount of death and harm. _________________ A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4671 Local time: 11:36 AM Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:16 am Post subject:
Eyedunno wrote:
Enemy_of_Realty wrote:
Whats your opinion on munky99999?
He's a troll who should probably have every aspect of his life monitored and micromanaged by bureaucrats (at his own expense, of course!), since he doesn't seem to have a problem with that line of thinking when it applies to others. But it's for your own good that I'm suggesting this, munky99999!
Lovely strawman. _________________ A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 217 Local time: 11:36 AM Location: us
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:31 am Post subject:
Quote:
Um... against insane war of drugs... but research isn't really being hindered... those who actually do research can do it. There are security conditions... just as anyone who wants to research anthrax will have redtape to cut through. The reality is that many researchers have no interest in researching pot... the same reason they dont research weed is the same reason they aren't researching Horseshit for the cure to cancer. It's not there.
I'm talking about government funded research, and cannabis actually has been shown to slowdown cancerous cell growth, which some scientists believe may hold the key to reversing it.
Quote:
Notice the way you type this... it's quite actually revealing. The reality is that in Canada we have authorized marijuana to be prescribed for such reasons.
I guess you didn't read the article very well, the first sentance shows I was talking about the United States, not Canada.
Quote:
So a person is having an asthma attack and you're telling me that smoking on a joint is actually good for it? Ya do I look like a massive motherfucking retard....
Actually that was one of two mistakes on my part, I meant asthma attacks can be lessened by intaking cannabis, I'm not going to rewrite the medical journal that properly explains how, but look it up, the research is there.
Quote:
You haven't heard of biased samples before have you? the reality is that in real polls show that it is infact a gateway drug.
This was my second mistake, somehow (it was only like that for 5 seconds before I fixed it) you managed to get illegal drugs, I rewrote cocaine, which is the main drug that cannabis gateways to, according to the DEA. I'd like to see these "real polls" and I would like to see the proof that the NORML experiments and research are as shoddy as the one fundies make to evolution.
Quote:
Furthermore your poll is testing for Cocaine and heroin... what a biased bullshit study... the gateway theory doesn't specify those drugs... the gateway theory also includes shrooms and acid... or others. The sheer fact that they specified cocaine and heroin and not shrooms or acid... screams bullshit. The reality is... many people who do marijuana will go over to shrooms or E or acid. While completely avoiding cocaine and heroin.
Again I am debunking DEA myths, and until you can prove your statements about my resources I stand by their polls and statistics.
Quote:
The real argument to make is... if you are going to legalize this drug... you might as well legalize the HUGE number of other illegal drugs which aren't well known... Such as Galactogil. Since that drug may arguably be safer than marijuana is. In doing that... you are basically creating a HUGE amount of death and harm.
No offense, but thats a terrible arguement, I am making this stance because of how well known cannabis, and the extremely large amounts of users. _________________
My Blog: http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=31
Joined: 02 Feb 2004 Posts: 4671 Local time: 11:36 AM Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:09 am Post subject:
Quote:
I'm talking about government funded research,
So if the government isnt funding the research... research cant happen... oh right that makes sense.
Quote:
and cannabis actually has been shown to slowdown cancerous cell growth,
Praying has been shown to cure cancer also in some studies. I've been hit by 3 big ones from a few decades ago who were biased going into it by the catholic church. Your point?
Honestly... botulism, ricen, and anthrax both have been proven to slowdown or stop cancer cell growth. In that it kills cells...and sometimes kills the person. What is honestly your point... at best the real conclusion is that marijuana and carbon monoxide and dioxide from the smoking of it actually limits the amount of good oxygen in your system... so your metabolism and such slows down and is stopping the cancer cells from getting as much oxygen and thusly than slows down cell growth. This unnamed study is meaningless.
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which some scientists believe may hold the key to reversing it.
heh no.
Quote:
I guess you didn't read the article very well, the first sentance shows I was talking about the United States, not Canada.
I am from Canada. I have already stated that the use of marijuana in possible reasons such as MS or cancer people to deal with nausea... is valid. The USA not doing this is just insane. To argue needing to legalize this... is a very far cry from arguing for the full legalization of marijuana. Many of you pothead hippies who want to be able to smoke weed just like cigarettes often bring these points up. They really aren't points at all.
Quote:
Actually that was one of two mistakes on my part, I meant asthma attacks can be lessened by intaking cannabis, I'm not going to rewrite the medical journal that properly explains how, but look it up, the research is there.
lmfao seriously... don't you realize what you are suggesting... I did try to find this... but it basically hinders from 2 websites... www.benefitsofmarijuana.com and www.budbuddies.com
This is seemingly just like someone who got stung by a bee and is deadly allergic to bee stings... you cure them by stinging them more with bees. Uh no.
Quote:
This was my second mistake, somehow (it was only like that for 5 seconds before I fixed it) you managed to get illegal drugs, I rewrote cocaine, which is the main drug that cannabis gateways to, according to the DEA.
Seriously... enough with the DEA... I don't have any relationship with them. They do not represent my position. As we clearly are in disagreement. I'm not saying people are going to cocaine from weed... I'm saying they do go to other drugs... Hell I know people who went to percocet and other similar drugs from marijuana. They didnt really go to something illegal... I open up my gateway claim to those drugs also... any drug which is being used inappropriately for the reason of getting high.
Quote:
I'd like to see these "real polls" and I would like to see the proof that the NORML experiments and research are as shoddy as the one fundies make to evolution.
NORML is a nonprofit, public-interest lobby that for more than 30 years has provided a voice for those Americans who oppose marijuana prohibition.
Ya that's just a tad more biased than the creationist who dont even really lobby for the mostpart. The sheer fact that they need to lobby is sad at best.
Quote:
Again I am debunking DEA myths, and until you can prove your statements about my resources I stand by their polls and statistics.
Ok I'll let you do that. You are essentially attacking a weak position... which a bunch of morons hold... even if you beat them... you basically are guarenteed to NOT be winning anything... you aren't arguing against actual reasons why marijuana and the billion other drugs are illegal.
Quote:
No offense, but thats a terrible arguement, I am making this stance because of how well known cannabis, and the extremely large amounts of users.
Mmmm popularity... such a good argument ALWAYS... time to make creationism completely legal to teach in public schools because of the "extremely large amount of believers"
In reality it's not a terrible argument at all. Just because there aren't many people doing the drug doesn't mean shit. You are arguing that marijuana should be legal based on medical points. It is currently banned on medical points just as the many other drugs.. if you legalize the drug on medical points... you also legalize those others. _________________ A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 217 Local time: 11:36 AM Location: us
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:49 am Post subject:
Quote:
So if the government isnt funding the research... research cant happen... oh right that makes sense.
Yes twist my words, I mean't that if the government is not backing up the research then the medical industry will never give proper attentioon the medicinal qualities of cannabis.
Quote:
Praying has been shown to cure cancer also in some studies. I've been hit by 3 big ones from a few decades ago who were biased going into it by the catholic church. Your point?
Honestly... botulism, ricen, and anthrax both have been proven to slowdown or stop cancer cell growth. In that it kills cells...and sometimes kills the person. What is honestly your point... at best the real conclusion is that marijuana and carbon monoxide and dioxide from the smoking of it actually limits the amount of good oxygen in your system... so your metabolism and such slows down and is stopping the cancer cells from getting as much oxygen and thusly than slows down cell growth. This unnamed study is meaningless.
Not to mention about 30 others from cannabismed, but I'm sure you would talk it down so I won't bother posting them.
Quote:
I am from Canada. I have already stated that the use of marijuana in possible reasons such as MS or cancer people to deal with nausea... is valid. The USA not doing this is just insane. To argue needing to legalize this... is a very far cry from arguing for the full legalization of marijuana. Many of you pothead hippies who want to be able to smoke weed just like cigarettes often bring these points up. They really aren't points at all.
Oh I'm sorry since I'm a potheaded hippie I'm not allowed to try to educate others about the medical aspects of the plant? Sure if recreational use was legalized I would be happy, but you know what? Not going to happen for a very long time. Hence my disgust with the DEA and their practices AND my fascination with the medicinal benefits. (Medicinal Legalization is very possible as California is already there and a few states wll soon be voting on it.)
Quote:
lmfao seriously... don't you realize what you are suggesting... I did try to find this... but it basically hinders from 2 websites... www.benefitsofmarijuana.com and www.budbuddies.com
This is seemingly just like someone who got stung by a bee and is deadly allergic to bee stings... you cure them by stinging them more with bees. Uh no.
Two sources from non interest sites or groups showing the possibilities of asthma control.
Quote:
Seriously... enough with the DEA... I don't have any relationship with them. They do not represent my position. As we clearly are in disagreement. I'm not saying people are going to cocaine from weed... I'm saying they do go to other drugs... Hell I know people who went to percocet and other similar drugs from marijuana. They didnt really go to something illegal... I open up my gateway claim to those drugs also... any drug which is being used inappropriately for the reason of getting high.
I'm not asking for your position on the DEA, but as to the point that the prohibition on maijuana is insane. And again, in reference to the gateway theory, I am debunking the DEA's stance on this! How many times must I repeat that? And it can be argued that any drug is a gateway drug, but cannabis as the main contender? Please.
Quote:
Ok I'll let you do that. You are essentially attacking a weak position... which a bunch of morons hold... even if you beat them... you basically are guarenteed to NOT be winning anything... you aren't arguing against actual reasons why marijuana and the billion other drugs are illegal.
I'm not trying to win anything, I'm trying to help educate people on the matter of the fact.
Quote:
Mmmm popularity... such a good argument ALWAYS... time to make creationism completely legal to teach in public schools because of the "extremely large amount of believers"
In reality it's not a terrible argument at all. Just because there aren't many people doing the drug doesn't mean shit. You are arguing that marijuana should be legal based on medical points. It is currently banned on medical points just as the many other drugs.. if you legalize the drug on medical points... you also legalize those others
To bad the point is that cannabis is shown to be safe as a medicinal drug, while the other you mentioned are very unstable and would have one hell of a time passing testing here in the US. _________________
My Blog: http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=31
Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 3716 Local time: 2:36 AM Location: Cin City, OH!
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:36 am Post subject:
Enemy_of_Real1ty wrote:
Sure if recreational use was legalized I would be happy, but you know what? Not going to happen for a very long time. Hence my disgust with the DEA and their practices AND my fascination with the medicinal benefits. (Medicinal Legalization is very possible as California is already there and a few states wll soon be voting on it.)
Sorry, but I agree with Doug Stanhope on this one:
I feel that the medicinal marijuana movement legitimizes (or at least poses no objection to) the notion that protecting individuals from themselves is a valid aim of government, and I have one finger on each hand reserved for people who think like that.
Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 4098 Local time: 4:36 PM Location: Dippin' my balls in it.
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:39 am Post subject:
Eyedunno wrote:
I haven't smoked bud in about five years, but I'm probably in a minority when it comes to my preferences. I prefer a metal pipe to all else, especially a metal pipe with a lid.
Quote:
Yeah, but vaporizers also tend to be bulky, right? And I can only imagine the taste is not even close to smoking from a pipe. I find smoking from a pipe has a taste I can only describe as chocolatey, whereas joints are papery and bongs are herby. Razz And yes, taste matters to me even when smoking pot. Like I said, I'm probably in a minority.
Man...I've been out of the loop so long, I wouldn't even know where to buy some. But Goddamn do I miss it, especially reading descriptions like "chocolatey". Shit. I'd love to find a reliable, low profile vendor. _________________
Joined: 08 Dec 2005 Posts: 5315 Local time: 11:36 AM Location: Here, There and Everywhere
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:20 am Post subject:
Enemy_of_Real1ty wrote:
Vapes don't really have a taste.
My old vaporizer had a weird, plastic taste to it. That could have just been that machine though. Anyway, my opinion on this issue echoes your own, but you've probably worded it way better than I could have. Interesting thread. Thanks for posting! Oh, and explaining what LSD is like to someone else who has never experienced it is difficult, but it can be done...that doesn't mean it won't come out sounding kinda crazy though! "I traveled all of space and time right there on my living room floor!"
Hey Munky, how many times are you going to have your ass handed to in threads like these before you realize that the "pothead hippies" just might know more (a LOT more) about this subject than you? Every time you open that misinformed trap of yours, you make yourself look like a complete idiot...."Absinthe has THC in it" I still crack up whenever I remember that priceless gem. Keep the laughs coming, ya crazy Canadian. (<---redundant, I know) _________________ This space is reserved for inarticulate meat puppets who have no true perspective outside the refuge of quotation marks.
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