British ethicist: Senile should be “put down”

pr126

"In yet another revealing moment for nationalized health care, a highly respected British ethicist said that dementia sufferers should get euthanized in order to preserve resources for healthier people. Baroness Warnock, described as “Britain’s leading moral philosopher”, said that the government should license people to be “put down” and stop being a drain on society:"

Baroness Warnock: Dementia sufferers may have a 'duty to die'

Moloth · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:39 am Post subject:

yeah... a friend of mine is kinda having to deal with this now.

http://www.moloth.com/forums/t3726-Right
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pr126 · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:56 am Post subject:

It is one of my fears that I could get so old and incapacitated that I should need constant care from others.
At that point, life to me has lost its meaning. Time to leave.
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Moloth · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:00 am Post subject:

yup... "human life" is more than cellular respiration.

once what makes you a person, makes you human, is irrevocably gone... you ARE already gone.

Its a horrible fate because there is no clear demarcation between 'still here' and 'gone'.
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jdopus · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:10 am Post subject:

I have to say, I share the same fear....

I have to say, I would rather die peacefully than just be left as a shell of what I once was, unable to think properly.

But this is more to do with the right-to-die, there's absolutely no circumstances under which I would like to see them 'Put down'
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tinker683 · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:22 am Post subject:

Wow....that's a ballsy thing to say in this day and age. Whether or not it's 'morally' unsound to allow these people to live though is, in my humble opinion, entirely up to them and the family caring for them and NOT the state. My grandfather has dementia but inspite of the burdens it places on me, my brother, and my parents we still love him and care for him.

And while it's sad to see him now when I think about how strong and independent he was...the truth is, he still wants to live. So I say...let him live.

But that's just me.
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kmisho · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject:

"Well if they are to die then they should hurry and do it and decrease the excess population."

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ShaSha · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject:

I would like to see that possibility be allowed by only if a living will indicated it and was written prior to dementia settling in. I definitely do not and never have wanted to live for the sake of breathing air. I have certain standards. So naturally without dimentia, I would love that assisted death was legal in all states. The woman who is for it, would be someone whom it could be done to since she has stated her desire for it. I think there are many who agree.

I worked in a nursing home where a man had dementia and the only thing keeping him alive was drugs such as insulin for his diabetes etc. If he would have lived at another time, he would have died on his own which in my case I would certainly choose. His family visited regularly but he never knew they were there. He was bed ridden but ate well and smiled a lot but as his son said, he was but a shell of the man that he was but a few years before.

Another woman wasn't disabled at all. She ran up and down the halls in her own world talking to her daughter outloud in that world Smile

She was darling but if it were me, I wouldn't mind a nice sedative some evening that I wouldn't wake up from.

WashMDJD · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject:

It's not exactly the same issue, but it's pretty closely related to the comments here. The OP referenced Warnock's claim that we have a duty to withhold care from the senile (or actively end their lives). Associated closely is the idea that individuals should get to make that choice for themselves - the 'right to die' movement. There are some ethicists who lean substantially further toward the Warnock end of the spectrum than the individualistically oriented 'right to die' crowd, and their arguments are at least superficially interesting.

One of my favorites is John Hardwig - a philosophy professor in Tennessee, I believe. Immediately following a statement made in a speech by then-Colorado governor Lamm that the elderly have a duty to die, Hardwig wrote an article (I think it was in the late 80's or early 90's, but I'd have to find it to make sure) arguing that Lamm, despite committing political suicide, had been right from an ethical point of view. In it he argues not that many people have a right to end their lives, but that they have an active moral duty to do so - and he spends the majority of the article showing how that in many circumstances we already think that sort of thing intuitively.

It's worth a read no matter where you come down on the issue.

EDIT: I found a copy of Hardwig's essay. It was published in 1997.
Full-text copy found at http://web.utk.edu/~jhardwig/dutydie.htm
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HxC · w00t Joined: 02 Jun 2008 Posts: 1252 Local time: 12:07 PM

it must suck to wake up everyday and not know what's going on, or who the person is wiping your ass for you.

my grandma had a little stroke a month or two ago and when she got back from the hospital, she still didn't know what was going on.

my aunt held out a glass of water in front of her to drink and she just stared at it smiling.

she's better now, but if a person is never coming back from that, they aren't capable of making the decision to live or die; they're already gone.
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Moloth · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject:

its very telling of human nature how we cling to the gut-reaction "ickyness" of a concept... even when we're able to acknowledge its superior morality.

From the individuals standpoint: i shall not be a burden on the people that ic are about nor on the society in which i live.

from the societal: We shall honor the person, the individual and the human. We will give them the right to determine how and when their existence is terminated and we will not allow those unable to make the decision to suffer any longer than necessary.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total

hillbillyatheist · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject:

I am all for the right to die, and hope that when I am senile and bed ridden that I can be euthanized.

but thats my choice.

the idea that the state would impose it on me is downright scary.

I think that would be murder.

Raskolnikov · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject:

As long as it's voluntary I see absolutely no problem with self-euthanization.
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pr126 · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject:

BarkAtTheMoon · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject:

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