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Moloth
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 Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: Atheists cannot hold public, governmental or secular office. |
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Just saw this on FARK... I know we've seen this before, but i really wanted to bring it up again and discuss what we can DO about it.
http://www.moloth.com/2007/01/27/worse-than-gay-black-or-being-a-woman/
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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GeorgeB
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Damn christians 
The thing is though those are all meaningless.
No state legislation can overrule pre-established federal law.
That's why weed is still not legal nationwide and only with a prescription in some states.
If a rogue state decided to say hey let's make weed legal now! You'd be OK until federal DEA agents kicked in your door. Because it's still fedral law.
So if a person were in office in any of those states and became atheist they couldn't kick him or her out. If they tried the person would just appeal to a higher federal court and that would end that right there.
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George
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Philosophos
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Atheists cannot hold public, governmental or secular off |
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| Moloth wrote: | Just saw this on FARK... I know we've seen this before, but i really wanted to bring it up again and discuss what we can DO about it.
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The main thing I suggest doing is googling Torcaso v. Watkins (1961).
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Eyedunno
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| GeorgeB wrote: | Damn christians
The thing is though those are all meaningless.
No state legislation can overrule pre-established federal law.
That's why weed is still not legal nationwide and only with a prescription in some states.
If a rogue state decided to say hey let's make weed legal now! You'd be OK until federal DEA agents kicked in your door. Because it's still fedral law.
So if a person were in office in any of those states and became atheist they couldn't kick him or her out. If they tried the person would just appeal to a higher federal court and that would end that right there. |
Wrong in theory, right in practice.
| U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 8 wrote: | The Congress shall have power
to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof. |
| U.S. Constitution, Tenth Amendment wrote: | | The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. |
The thing is, the Constitution DOES forbid religious tests for public office (in Article 6), and that's why in this particular case, court precedent does seem to jibe with the Constitution itself.
In the case of the DEA, I suspect that's justified through the commerce clause. You can justify anything through the commerce clause, if your logic is convoluted enough. You could probably justify having federal agents rectally violate toddlers with billy clubs through the commerce clause, except that in that particular case, the public would obviously never go along with it.
In any sensible interpretation of the Constitution, the feds have no jurisdiction over state marijuana laws, except in cases where that marijuana crosses state lines or the border. |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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ooh... fantastic responses.. i have more research to do.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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goldstein
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: |
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You do know that the Fueher was a cocksucker, don't you?
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Ivan_Ivanov
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| goldstein wrote: | | You do know that the Fueher was a cocksucker, don't you? |
You do know that commenting on something you have no understanding of makes you look rather silly, don't you?
Here, this may shed some light.
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Libertarian_Hippie
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| GeorgeB wrote: | No state legislation can overrule pre-established federal law.
That's why weed is still not legal nationwide and only with a prescription in some states.
If a rogue state decided to say hey let's make weed legal now! You'd be OK until federal DEA agents kicked in your door. Because it's still fedral law. |
WRONG.
99% of arrests are made at the state level. If states stop the drug war, the drug war ends.
The feds simply can't garner up as much support as they used to for the war on drugs (its funding has been cut back), and the DEA's own judges are saying that the government's stance on MJ is a bunch of crap. I know of cities in California that people smoke pot openly *anywhere*
For sure, the first state to legalize it completely will likely be a prime target for DEA scare tactics, but if those scare tactics don't work and another state follows suit then the dominos will fall from there. On a sidenote, it is technically legal right now in Alaska to have up to 4oz of MJ - pending the outcome of an appeal (i.e. you can get away with it now, but maybe not in the near future)
| GeorgeB wrote: | | So if a person were in office in any of those states and became atheist they couldn't kick him or her out. If they tried the person would just appeal to a higher federal court and that would end that right there. |
It'd be kicked out on constitutional grounds.
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Nimitz
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Those laws are left on the state books and have no real meaning. But you won't see anyone trying to take them off either. |
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Specus_Meretricis
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| goldstein wrote: | | You do know that the Fueher was a cocksucker, don't you? |
The Fueher was from the show Deadwood? |
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FlatEarth1024
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Specus_Meretricis wrote: | | goldstein wrote: | | You do know that the Fueher was a cocksucker, don't you? |
The Fueher was from the show Deadwood? |
Swearengen: "Wu, are you trying to tell me The Fuhrer and Josef Goebbels are the two white cocksuckers who killed your courier and stole the drugs?"
Wu: "Ah!!! Swigen!!! Fuhrer and Goebbels! Two white coksukka!!!"
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Specus_Meretricis
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| FlatEarth1024 wrote: | | Specus_Meretricis wrote: | | goldstein wrote: | | You do know that the Fueher was a cocksucker, don't you? |
The Fueher was from the show Deadwood? |
Swearengen: "Wu, are you trying to tell me The Fuhrer and Josef Goebbels are the two white cocksuckers who killed your courier and stole the drugs?"
Wu: "Ah!!! Swigen!!! Fuhrer and Goebbels! Two white coksukka!!!" |
HAHAHA! Beautiful. |
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Paranoia21
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
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This is interesting, as the United States was formed as a secular nation. Odd, very odd.
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mjordan2nd
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: Atheists can't hold public office |
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Originally from http://ethicalatheist.blogspot.com
The founding fathers of this nation, who the Christians misrepresent and use as champions for their cause, were secularists above all. They created this nation on the idea that religious bigotry would not enter our government. It is sad to see how some of our state governments have taken that beautiful vision that the founding fathers had, and twisted it, and molded it to where now that vision is nothing more than a memory.
If you live in Texas, Arkansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, or Tennessee and are an atheist or an agnostic, you can not hold public office. For example, Article I Section IV of the Texas constitution states:
No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.
The other states I listed all have similar clauses.
So why are atheists up in arms against the religious now days? Why is it that you can't go to Barnes and Nobles without seeing one of these "new atheism" books? Well, one reason should be clear to you by now. We are discriminated against. And it's acceptable to society. However, it is not acceptable to us. I do not oppose people who adhere to inane religious myths and irrationality holding office, but systematically keeping rationality out is too much.
I hope this bothers you. Religious or not, as an American this should bother you. Please, please, please do something about it. Write to the legislators, protest, make some noise. Do it non-violently, but make some noise! Such laws should not continue unchecked. |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Atheists can't hold public office |
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| mjordan2nd wrote: |
I hope this bothers you. Religious or not, as an American this should bother you. Please, please, please do something about it. Write to the legislators, protest, make some noise. Do it non-violently, but make some noise! Such laws should not continue unchecked. |
no, we're fine with it. Its cool.
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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