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Chaoslord2004
Logician
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 8411
Local time: 11:51 AM
Location: Minnesota
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 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Wickedtruth wrote: | "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into the *DOUCHE* fire:"
::Wicked plucks out an eye at the Douch man picture:: lol |
thats pretty funny.
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An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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Mr_C
Reckoner
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 6616
Local time: 10:51 AM
Location: Pale Blue Dot
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | Wickedtruth wrote: | "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into the *DOUCHE* fire:"
::Wicked plucks out an eye at the Douch man picture:: lol |
thats pretty funny. |
Yes, but was it the truth?
...the wicked truth?
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Wickedtruth
Forum Master
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 2087
Local time: 11:51 AM
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | Wickedtruth wrote: | "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into the *DOUCHE* fire:"
::Wicked plucks out an eye at the Douch man picture:: lol |
thats pretty funny. |
Yes, but was it the truth?
...the wicked truth?
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Yeah..I think I chose the wrong moniker when I joined this forum. Shoulda went with "GoofyTruth" or "Loadedtruth" or sumtin like dat. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 11:51 AM
Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Since no one attempted my logic problem (5 houses, 5 nationalities,...), you can pm me for the answers. I know, you klutzes are too shy to give a wrong answer for fear of me really making you look bad, hah.
Here's the famous Cretan liar paradox:
Epimenides, a Cretan, said: "All Cretans are liars." Is it true or false? |
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Chaoslord2004
Logician
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 8411
Local time: 11:51 AM
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | Since no one attempted my logic problem (5 houses, 5 nationalities,...), you can pm me for the answers. I know, you klutzes are too shy to give a wrong answer for fear of me really making you look bad, hah.
Here's the famous Cretan liar paradox:
Epimenides, a Cretan, said: "All Cretans are liars." Is it true or false? |
I've actually done work on the liar paradox. The solution I advocate is what I call the "parametric solution to the liar." This solution solves all variants of the liar paradox. Basically, it says all propositions are conjunctions, on proposition asserting P and the other asserting T(P). The liar becomes simply false, not T <--> F.
_________________
An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9289
Local time: 12:51 PM
Location: Where Scum Are
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | Basically, it says all propositions are conjunctions, on proposition asserting P and the other asserting T(P). The liar becomes simply false, not T <--> F. |
All propositions are conjunctions? Yikes. I saw that solution before, but am too lazy to look it up. I presume you mean a conjuction with something like the following: "and that's true".
So, any proposition's best analyzed by the following: for all propositions X, we need to analyze that stuff as "X and "X is true"".
Is that what you're getting at?
Cuz... if so... that shit's wrong.
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The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
Local time: 11:51 AM
Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: | Since no one attempted my logic problem (5 houses, 5 nationalities,...), you can pm me for the answers. I know, you klutzes are too shy to give a wrong answer for fear of me really making you look bad, hah.
Here's the famous Cretan liar paradox:
Epimenides, a Cretan, said: "All Cretans are liars." Is it true or false? |
I've actually done work on the liar paradox. The solution I advocate is what I call the "parametric solution to the liar." This solution solves all variants of the liar paradox. Basically, it says all propositions are conjunctions, on proposition asserting P and the other asserting T(P). The liar becomes simply false, not T <--> F. |
Very good answer. Obviously, the proposition, "All Cretans are liars," is false, that is, some Cretans do tell the truth sometimes, and Epimenides is a fucking liar.
Now, what about this:
"This statement is false."
Is it true or false? |
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Chaoslord2004
Logician
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 8411
Local time: 11:51 AM
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | Basically, it says all propositions are conjunctions, on proposition asserting P and the other asserting T(P). The liar becomes simply false, not T <--> F. |
All propositions are conjunctions? Yikes. I saw that solution before, but am too lazy to look it up. I presume you mean a conjuction with something like the following: "and that's true".
So, any proposition's best analyzed by the following: for all propositions X, we need to analyze that stuff as "X and "X is true"".
Is that what you're getting at?
Cuz... if so... that shit's wrong. |
I'm not sure its the right solution anymore. Not much work, before me, has been done on it. However, I did demonstrate that it solved ALL variants of the Liar...even Yablo's paradox. It is a pretty wacky solution.
_________________
An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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rickcopeland648
The Phantom Teabagger
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3022
Local time: 4:51 PM
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Chaos,
Can you please list what you think is an essential course in logic? By that The Rick Copeland does not mean an undergrad couse (but please do that as well. He'd like that greatly) but just enough to see through the bullshit. In short, a series of books regarding critical thinking...
_________________
“I think it’s also important for the President to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
-- George W. Bush on Clinton's involvement in Kosovo, 1999
"Syphilis is the algebra of infection."
(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
Can't... fight... any... longer... must.. help.. bunny.. achieve.. global.. domination.. All.. hail... bunny...
-------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Chaoslord2004
Logician
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 8411
Local time: 11:51 AM
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: | Since no one attempted my logic problem (5 houses, 5 nationalities,...), you can pm me for the answers. I know, you klutzes are too shy to give a wrong answer for fear of me really making you look bad, hah.
Here's the famous Cretan liar paradox:
Epimenides, a Cretan, said: "All Cretans are liars." Is it true or false? |
I've actually done work on the liar paradox. The solution I advocate is what I call the "parametric solution to the liar." This solution solves all variants of the liar paradox. Basically, it says all propositions are conjunctions, on proposition asserting P and the other asserting T(P). The liar becomes simply false, not T <--> F. |
Very good answer. Obviously, the proposition, "All Cretans are liars," is false, that is, some Cretans do tell the truth sometimes, and Epimenides is a fucking liar.
Now, what about this:
"This statement is false."
Is it true or false? |
Let me post the proof:
1. T(L) [assumption for reductio]
2. T(L) & F(L) [equivalent to 1 on PTP view]
3. L ^ ~L [from (2) and exclusive bivalence]
Therefore,
4. F(L) [reductio]
1. F(L) [assumption]
2. ~L [from 1]
3. ~(T(L) & F(L)) [equivalent to (2) on PTP view]
4. ~T(L) or ~F(L) [equivalent to 3]
5. F(L) or T(L) [equivalent to 4 and exclusive bivalence]
6. ~T(L) [equivalent to 1 modulo exclusive bivalence]
Therefore,
7. F(L) [disjunctive syllogism: 5, 6]
We have, in fact, a proof given my solution to the liar that it is just false. Unlike other solutions, this ALSO solves ALL strengthened versions.
_________________
An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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Chaoslord2004
Logician
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 8411
Local time: 11:51 AM
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| rickcopeland648 wrote: | Chaos,
Can you please list what you think is an essential course in logic? By that The Rick Copeland does not mean an undergrad couse (but please do that as well. He'd like that greatly) but just enough to see through the bullshit. In short, a series of books regarding critical thinking... |
If you're more interested in critical thinking, I can't think of a better book than this one:
I know the cover is stupid...
Now, if your more interested in the logic, Irving M. Copi and Carl Cohen's Introduction to Logic is ideal:
Are you looking for more advanced material? What are your primary interest in logic?
_________________
An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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Wickedtruth
Forum Master
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 2087
Local time: 11:51 AM
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | What are your primary interest in logic? |
He thinks it will impress the chicks. |
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rickcopeland648
The Phantom Teabagger
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3022
Local time: 4:51 PM
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps a bit more. The Rick Copeland has read both of those...
_________________
“I think it’s also important for the President to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
-- George W. Bush on Clinton's involvement in Kosovo, 1999
"Syphilis is the algebra of infection."
(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
Can't... fight... any... longer... must.. help.. bunny.. achieve.. global.. domination.. All.. hail... bunny...
-------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Chaoslord2004
Logician
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 8411
Local time: 11:51 AM
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Wickedtruth wrote: | | Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | What are your primary interest in logic? |
He thinks it will impress the chicks. |
_________________
An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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Philosophos
Do it
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 9289
Local time: 12:51 PM
Location: Where Scum Are
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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How To Think About Weird Things kicks serious fucking ass. That's one hell of a book.
_________________
The whores and politicians will shout 'save us'...
...and I'll whisper 'no'. |
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