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Moloth
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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| tonyman1989 wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | tonyman1989 wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | I suppose you can be a humanist and an atheist....but I'm also sure there are some Jewish Nazi's out there somewhere.
"Humanism" is not the best word for it anyway because it implies that anything not human doesn't count, which isn't true.
Anyway, god is irrelevant if you're really a humanist, whether you believe in him or not. |
what about a humanist and a theist? |
My typo. I meant 'humanist and theist.' It's humanism and theism that can be reconciled but leaves the believer with a pointless god. |
what do you mean by "pointless god". I didn't think humanism had much to do with god? |
thats just it. if you follow Humanism, god becomes something very close to Deism: He could exist, i guess, but basically has no interaction with the Universe at all.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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tonyman1989
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | tonyman1989 wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | tonyman1989 wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | I suppose you can be a humanist and an atheist....but I'm also sure there are some Jewish Nazi's out there somewhere.
"Humanism" is not the best word for it anyway because it implies that anything not human doesn't count, which isn't true.
Anyway, god is irrelevant if you're really a humanist, whether you believe in him or not. |
what about a humanist and a theist? |
My typo. I meant 'humanist and theist.' It's humanism and theism that can be reconciled but leaves the believer with a pointless god. |
what do you mean by "pointless god". I didn't think humanism had much to do with god? |
thats just it. if you follow Humanism, god becomes something very close to Deism: He could exist, i guess, but basically has no interaction with the Universe at all. |
thanks moloth.
What is humanism? because what I thought it was seems wrong.
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"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Dude... seriously. USE WIKI!
WIKI IZ UR FRIEND!11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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tonyman1989
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: |
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sorry I'm not that familer with it. thanks.
_________________
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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kmisho
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Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | tonyman1989 wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | tonyman1989 wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | I suppose you can be a humanist and an atheist....but I'm also sure there are some Jewish Nazi's out there somewhere.
"Humanism" is not the best word for it anyway because it implies that anything not human doesn't count, which isn't true.
Anyway, god is irrelevant if you're really a humanist, whether you believe in him or not. |
what about a humanist and a theist? |
My typo. I meant 'humanist and theist.' It's humanism and theism that can be reconciled but leaves the believer with a pointless god. |
what do you mean by "pointless god". I didn't think humanism had much to do with god? |
thats just it. if you follow Humanism, god becomes something very close to Deism: He could exist, i guess, but basically has no interaction with the Universe at all. |
Or even if one does believe that a god interacts with us, it is irrelevant with respect to humanism because humanism is about how we should and should not interact with each other according to us. God's opinion, even if he has one, doesn't matter unless you want to count him as another human. And I have no problem with treating god as a human and extending equal rights to him as a self-conscious agency. But I will not treat him as superior. That would be inhumane!
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 4915
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Location: Wilmington, DE
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Alternatives to religion |
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| ChrissyFos wrote: | | BarkAtTheMoon wrote: | | Go to a bar, make some friends, join a social club or hobby club, play sports, become a prostitute, go to the gym and have a chat with the person on the next machine... |
Become a prostitute...I had to read that twice. Random!  The only thing I might add to your list is start smoking cigarettes. |
Too true. I should've thought of that. All the fun people hang out in the smoking area.
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"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
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Isambard
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | Isambard wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | Moloth wrote: | | Isambard wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | Isambard wrote: | | Funny, you sound exactly like a theist promoting his/her own religion. The problem of religion is the problem of any ideology. By promoting 'atheism' as superior to theism, you are merely saying your ideology is better than another's, which at the end is very ironic and humorous |
And what you're doing is like laughing at someone who offers someone with polio a polio vaccine rather than prayer.
When religion starts to work, you can make that argument. Until then, materialistic naturalistic atheism wins hands down. |
I was pting that atheism has no intrinsic values to speak of. It is merely disbelief in an active patriartical deity. What he was promoting was a form of Humanism which would be then an ideology v. another ideology, not a instrinsic superiority of atheistic 'lifestyle'. |
But Humanism is atheistic. |
If he wants to argue that an ideology can have a basis hard-to-deny observation then I will agree with him. If he wants to say that all ideologies are equal by virtue of being ideologies, I will not agree. |
Id say what constitues a good idea or a bad one is completely dependant on what your goals are. So in the end what is 'better' is all relative. |
Relative yes, but relative to what? Demonstrable criteria or bullshit magical claims? Don't confuse relativity with subjectivity. |
Again, this is Humanism vs. A general theism. In this case, both are bullshit as they rely on assumptions. Science and scientific method *is not* an ideology, it is a tool
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Composite things are like dreams. Fantasies. Bubbles. Thoughts. Like a dewdrop and a flash of lightning. A new dress and a burning tire. Waves of sand and sinking ships. The shadow of a statue, and an entry in a diary. A brain tumor and an ice cream sundae. We are thus to be recorded. |
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WisdomManiac91
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Joined: 27 Jun 2007
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Location: Eastern USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Isambard wrote: | | Science and scientific method *is not* an ideology, it is a tool |
Yes, but some atheists approach science almost dogmatically, as if science is a replacement for their belief in God. |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 8036
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Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| WisdomManiac91 wrote: | | Isambard wrote: | | Science and scientific method *is not* an ideology, it is a tool |
Yes, but some atheists approach science almost dogmatically, as if science is a replacement for their belief in God. |
Names? |
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Philosophos
Do it
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Dawkins. He's really bad about this, actually. I wouldn't say he's "dogmatic," but he's really sloppy about thinking exactly how far evolution can take one in one's atheism.
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Moloth
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Dawkins. He's really bad about this, actually. I wouldn't say he's "dogmatic," but he's really sloppy about thinking exactly how far evolution can take one in one's atheism. |
sloppy how? do you have any examples?
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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Location: Wilmington, DE
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | WisdomManiac91 wrote: | | Isambard wrote: | | Science and scientific method *is not* an ideology, it is a tool |
Yes, but some atheists approach science almost dogmatically, as if science is a replacement for their belief in God. |
Names? |
Yeah. That's one of those things you hear all the time about atheists and scientists, but I've never seen any example of it. And I've known, or known about, many atheists and scientists in my life.
_________________
"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
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tonyman1989
Forum Master
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2461
Local time: 12:47 PM
Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| WisdomManiac91 wrote: | | Isambard wrote: | | Science and scientific method *is not* an ideology, it is a tool |
Yes, but some atheists approach science almost dogmatically, as if science is a replacement for their belief in God. |
science replaced my belief of god but I was never dogmatic and I'm not.
_________________
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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BarkAtTheMoon
O Captain, my Captain
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 4915
Local time: 12:47 PM
Location: Wilmington, DE
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| tonyman1989 wrote: | | WisdomManiac91 wrote: | | Isambard wrote: | | Science and scientific method *is not* an ideology, it is a tool |
Yes, but some atheists approach science almost dogmatically, as if science is a replacement for their belief in God. |
science replaced my belief of god but I was never dogmatic and I'm not. |
The very definition of science and the scientific method is incompatible with being dogmatic.
_________________
"The very existence of flame throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.' - George Carlin
"I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people." - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey |
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tonyman1989
Forum Master
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2461
Local time: 12:47 PM
Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Dawkins. He's really bad about this, actually. I wouldn't say he's "dogmatic," but he's really sloppy about thinking exactly how far evolution can take one in one's atheism. |
I don't think he's dogmatic, but he does think evolution and religion can't go hand and hand.
_________________
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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