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| Do you believe there is other intelligent life in the Universe? |
| yes |
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91% |
[ 41 ] |
| no |
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8% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 45 |
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Message |
Hit_me_up024
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 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Alone in the Universe |
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I am about to make a very big contriversal statement. In my personal opinion I do not think that there is any intelligent life other than us. My reasoning for this is as follows:
1. conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur with the tightly restricted values of the universal physical constants, and that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different the universe would be unlikely to be able to substain life.
2.In order for a planet to substain life it must have a reliable heat source thats is close enough but not too far away.
-For instance, the Earth is unique in the solar system in that it's at just the right distance from the sun so that water, which we all agree is essential to life as we know it , exists here in all three states, as liquid, ice, and vapor. Were Earth's orbit slightly larger or smaller, this would not be the case, and life might very well not exist here.
3.In order for a planet to substain life it must have a set orbit around its heat source, and remain on an axis
- For instance if the Earth did not have a moon, we would not remain on our axis and spin out of control. The moon equals out the gravity, and keeps the Earth steadily spinning with North and South just where they should be. Without this life wouldnt exist.
4. The conditions for evolution to even begin are very specific.
-Over the course of billions of years of evolution, intelligence will emerge, sooner or later, because it congers survival advantages on teh species that possesses it, which is what evolution is all about.
5. Existing radio telescopes are capable of detecting signals transmitted by alien civilization of comparable vapacity anywhere in our quarter of the Milky Way galaxy.
-The next generation of telescopes may be able to discern telltale signs of life specifically, carbon dioxide, which indicates the presence of an atmoshphere; water, suggesting oceans and ozone, a form of oxygen in teh spectra of starlight reflected off extrasolar planets.
6. For a planet to substain life it must have an atmosphere to filter out ENOUGH radiation from the heat source.
- For instance a planet must have enough of an atmoshere to filter out the radiation, without having too much of one filtering out too much radiation making it too cold for life to emerge. The ozone has to be proportionate to the heat source size and distance.
Go ahead and answer the pole to, just make an *educated*  guess
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baddogma
antitheist
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wait wait........I think you should have a seperate tab to vote. "Do you think there is ANY intelligent life in the universe!"
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baddogma
antitheist
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Alone in the Universe |
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| Quote: |
-For instance, the Earth is unique in the solar system in that it's at just the right distance from the sun so that water, which we all agree is essential to life as we know it , exists here in all three states, as liquid, ice, and vapor. Were Earth's orbit [b]slightly larger or smaller, this would not be the case, and life might very well not exist here.[/b]
3.In order for a planet to substain life it must have a set orbit around its heat source, and remain on an axis
- For instance if the Earth did not have a moon, we would not remain on our axis and spin out of control. The moon equals out the gravity, and keeps the Earth steadily spinning with North and South just where they should be. Without this life wouldnt exist. |
The Earth has an elliptical orbit and swings thousands of miles out. Define SLIGHTLY.
Also North and South poles switch and Magnetic North wanders constantly.
Each continent has taken turns near the poles and near the equator.
Should be?
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I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar....
smartmarzipan: "Debating fundies is like playing chess with pigeons. They knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and then fly back to the roost to declare victory." |
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pr126
resident misanthrope
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8645
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Planet-hunters set for big bounty
| Quote: | Rocky planets, possibly with conditions suitable for life, may be more common than previously thought in our galaxy, a study has found.
New evidence suggests more than half the Sun-like stars in the Milky Way could have similar planetary systems.
There may also be hundreds of undiscovered worlds in outer parts of our Solar System, astronomers believe.
Future studies of such worlds will radically alter our understanding of how planets are formed, they say.
New findings about planets were presented at the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in Boston. |
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Mr_C
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Check out the Drake Equation
| Quote: |
Historical estimates of the parameters
Considerable disagreement on the values of most of these parameters exists, but the values used by Drake and his colleagues in 1961 were:
R* = 10/year (10 stars formed per year, on the average over the life of the galaxy)
fp = 0.5 (half of all stars formed will have planets)
ne = 2 (stars with planets will have 2 planets capable of supporting life)
fl = 1 (100% of these planets will develop life)
fi = 0.01 (1% of which will be intelligent life)
fc = 0.01 (1% of which will be able to communicate)
L = 10,000 years (which will last 10,000 years)
Drake's values give N = 10 × 0.5 × 2 × 1 × 0.01 × 0.01 × 10,000 = 10
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Nimitz
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Local time: 2:44 AM
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The way the question is worded I have to vote no. The "possibility" of intelligent life, yes. But there's also the "possibility" that we are alone. The odds are that there is, or was, or will be other life out there. Just no proof of it yet. |
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baddogma
antitheist
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, when you get an idea of how much is out there.....hard to think it only happened one time in time and the universe....
What cracks me up though is that people think they are advanced grey peoplish things that evolved just about exactly as we did..then figured out how to travel here to probe Yeranus!
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Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar....
smartmarzipan: "Debating fundies is like playing chess with pigeons. They knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and then fly back to the roost to declare victory." |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Alone in the Universe |
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| Hit_me_up024 wrote: | I am about to make a very big contriversal statement. In my personal opinion I do not think that there is any intelligent life other than us. My reasoning for this is as follows:
1. conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur with the tightly restricted values of the universal physical constants, and that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different the universe would be unlikely to be able to substain life.
2.In order for a planet to substain life it must have a reliable heat source thats is close enough but not too far away.
-For instance, the Earth is unique in the solar system in that it's at just the right distance from the sun so that water, which we all agree is essential to life as we know it , exists here in all three states, as liquid, ice, and vapor. Were Earth's orbit slightly larger or smaller, this would not be the case, and life might very well not exist here.
3.In order for a planet to substain life it must have a set orbit around its heat source, and remain on an axis
- For instance if the Earth did not have a moon, we would not remain on our axis and spin out of control. The moon equals out the gravity, and keeps the Earth steadily spinning with North and South just where they should be. Without this life wouldnt exist.
4. The conditions for evolution to even begin are very specific.
-Over the course of billions of years of evolution, intelligence will emerge, sooner or later, because it congers survival advantages on teh species that possesses it, which is what evolution is all about.
5. Existing radio telescopes are capable of detecting signals transmitted by alien civilization of comparable vapacity anywhere in our quarter of the Milky Way galaxy.
-The next generation of telescopes may be able to discern telltale signs of life specifically, carbon dioxide, which indicates the presence of an atmoshphere; water, suggesting oceans and ozone, a form of oxygen in teh spectra of starlight reflected off extrasolar planets.
6. For a planet to substain life it must have an atmosphere to filter out ENOUGH radiation from the heat source.
- For instance a planet must have enough of an atmoshere to filter out the radiation, without having too much of one filtering out too much radiation making it too cold for life to emerge. The ozone has to be proportionate to the heat source size and distance.
Go ahead and answer the pole to, just make an *educated* guess |
To add to your list, there is another condition, which was found recently, and that is, the solar system must have a giant planet like Jupiter. The reason being that such a giant planet acts like a sentinel, deviating the humongus number of asteroids that float by any system. Without it, our planey would be continuously bombarded by asteroids, and we know what happened last time 65 million years ago. |
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Mr_C
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Alone in the Universe |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: |
To add to your list, there is another condition, which was found recently, and that is, the solar system must have a giant planet like Jupiter. The reason being that such a giant planet acts like a sentinel, deviating the humongus number of asteroids that float by any system. Without it, our planey would be continuously bombarded by asteroids, and we know what happened last time 65 million years ago. |
Got any links so I can read up on that?
I doubt what you wrote because it's the gravitational force of other planets in our solar system that can actually bring asteroids, comets, etc from outside our solar system closer to earth...I just think it would work both ways.
Plus, it's not like Jupiter is in a fixed position as a shield in front of earth, as they have different orbital rates.
Finally, Jupiter is outside of the asteroid belt, while earth is inside it.
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josephpalazzo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Alone in the Universe |
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| Mr_C wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: |
To add to your list, there is another condition, which was found recently, and that is, the solar system must have a giant planet like Jupiter. The reason being that such a giant planet acts like a sentinel, deviating the humongus number of asteroids that float by any system. Without it, our planey would be continuously bombarded by asteroids, and we know what happened last time 65 million years ago. |
Got any links so I can read up on that?
I doubt what you wrote because it's the gravitational force of other planets in our solar system that can actually bring asteroids, comets, etc from outside our solar system closer to earth...I just think it would work both ways.
Plus, it's not like Jupiter is in a fixed position as a shield in front of earth, as they have different orbital rates.
Finally, Jupiter is outside of the asteroid belt, while earth is inside it.
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I`m aware that Jonathan Horner has challenged that theory but the verdict is still out there. The first to propose the Jupiter/sentinel theory was George Wetherill in 1994. |
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Hit_me_up024
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Also North and South poles switch and Magnetic North wanders constantly |
bull shit the north and south poles dont switch, if that was true then there would be no set seasons, no calender, no repeating night and day. Not saying the poles do not move but they definatley do not "switch", so let me get this striaght the Earths is just free ballin huh? rolling whatever way it feels like!- I think not
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Last edited by Hit_me_up024 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hit_me_up024
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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you also have to take into account that if you took the Eaths age 4.6 billion years and shrunk it down into a 24 hour period mankinds presence in the 24hour period would only be a span of 30 seconds.
Think of how long the Earth changed, to be able to create and maintain life.
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Hit_me_up024
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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[quote]Yeah, when you get an idea of how much is out there.....hard to think it only happened one time in time and the universe....[quote]
Okay so humans went from canoes to spaceships in a scant of 14,000 years which is nothing compared to the Earths age. So it makes sense to use radio telescopes(part of the time) to listen for signals from other technology logical civilizations, since as you say there should be thousands of them in our galaxy. But there is none, nothing, nada we've searched if there was anything near us we would find it. You cant say that the universe's size could effect the search either radio frequencies travel an infinite amount in time and space. Same thing with lasers and any kind o0f frequency
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josephpalazzo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Hit_me_up024 wrote: | | Quote: | | Also North and South poles switch and Magnetic North wanders constantly |
bull shit the north and south poles dont switch, if that was true then there would be no set seasons, no calender, no repeating night and day. Not saying the poles do not move but they definatley do not "switch", so let me get this striaght the Earths is just free ballin huh? rolling whatever way it feels like!- I think not |
Hope you were joking. In reality, the Earth's magnetic field takes an average of only 7000 years to reverse its polarity. The planet has undergone several hundred field reversals, with the most recent confirmed flip occurring about 780,000 years ago. |
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Dawkadoodle
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Alone in the Universe |
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| Quote: | | 1. conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur with the tightly restricted values of the universal physical constants, and that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different the universe would be unlikely to be able to substain life. |
There is not any other known planet with "life" other than this planet, yet you've managed to make some sort of argument in these gaps and hypotheticals. Impressive yet futile. Since there is no generally accepted definition of what life is in this thread, it's nonsensical to argue the prowess of these universal conditions hold and what they will and won't allow in any given hypothetical situation.
| Quote: |
2.In order for a planet to substain life it must have a reliable heat source thats is close enough but not too far away.
-For instance, the Earth is unique in the solar system in that it's at just the right distance from the sun so that water, which we all agree is essential to life as we know it , exists here in all three states, as liquid, ice, and vapor. Were Earth's orbit slightly larger or smaller, this would not be the case, and life might very well not exist here.
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1. You need a homogeneous definition of life instead of these momentarily abstracted meanings throughout your entire dissertation, it's fucking distracting.
2. The Goldilocks Zone only presents the most likely locations for a general definition of life to exist. The same definition of life or undefined ideas of what life might be can arise virtually anywhere given the conditions are right for each differing definition. You cannot assert that Earth is unique in this system as Earth's monopoly on life in Sol is currently an inconclusive presupposition.
| Quote: |
3.In order for a planet to substain life it must have a set orbit around its heat source, and remain on an axis
- For instance if the Earth did not have a moon, we would not remain on our axis and spin out of control. The moon equals out the gravity, and keeps the Earth steadily spinning with North and South just where they should be. Without this life wouldnt exist.
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Earth's current axis allowed for the development of the seasons we have. If the axis were a few degrees different, life could have still developed however our seasons would be nothing less than "Fucking Extreme," which the life would mimic. It allowed for evolution to occur with more ease, however, the development of life and evolution of life could have still been allowed to occur. Since life is now thought to have evolved not in the oceans of primitive earth, but more of a "mica sandwich under the soup bowl" the role of the Moon and it's tidal effects, if true, bare less significance than previously thought. And of course, since we have no other planets with life presently or previously to strike a comparison with...we certainly can't say without Luna, life wouldn't exist.
| Quote: |
4. The conditions for evolution to even begin are very specific.
-Over the course of billions of years of evolution, intelligence will emerge, sooner or later, because it congers survival advantages on teh species that possesses it, which is what evolution is all about. |
Evolution "isn't all about" survival advantages. How the hell did you get this idea?
| Quote: |
5. Existing radio telescopes are capable of detecting signals transmitted by alien civilization of comparable vapacity anywhere in our quarter of the Milky Way galaxy.
-The next generation of telescopes may be able to discern telltale signs of life specifically, carbon dioxide, which indicates the presence of an atmoshphere; water, suggesting oceans and ozone, a form of oxygen in teh spectra of starlight reflected off extrasolar planets. |
1. Are aliens, advanced, primitive or contemporary, required to have or use radio based technologies? Not at all.
2. There are billions of galaxies. |
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