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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ApostateLois wrote: | I can't meditate. My mind wanders in a million different directions.  |
That's OK. If you try to stop it, you might as well stand in front of a runaway freight train. Be with your breathing, and allow the thoughts to come and go. You can't stop them, just don't stay attached to them, allow them to pass. Eventually stillness will happen on its own . . . or so I'm told. 
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CET 
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| PJS wrote: | | Having meditated consistently for the past fourteen years, I largely agree with the OP. Meditation seems to calm the grasping, anxiety ridden mind. If you are from a similar part of the cortical lottery, and you experience much anxiety, it may help. I meditate for about fifteen minutes soon after awakening and right before sleep virtually every day. After a few months many people do feel some positive effects; I did. If you have a quiet environment, a comfortable body position, a focal point (breath, mantra,etc.),and a relaxed body, those four ingredients may very well be sufficient. Some like to add other ingredients and I have experimented with a few, but I think the essential elements are simple. Like the opening post stated, the experience will be quite varied, but in the long run I think the positive effects are worth a few minutes each day. I've read at least ten books on Buddhist meditation practices, and some were quite helpful at the time, but I always come back to the basics. |
That is quite a history of practice. I felt the effects after my first sit, and new effects continue to present themselves, though they are becoming more subtle. I refer to them as my "Magical Zen Powers". 
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Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | I thought the postures simply helped one not doze off... |
Sometimes after I awaken from my meditation I am unsure as to whether or not I have dozed off or not... |
I am always certain that I have not, because I am always completely aware of everything around me. Curious that we have such different experiences ...
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Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12483
Local time: 2:31 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | AtheistEngineer wrote: | | Man, thanks a lot for posting this. I've tried to teach myself to meditate and I can never get it down. I suffer from a lot of anxiety (from school, work, and other things) and I always thought meditation could be a solution. My mom does a lot of meditation exercises like the ones described in your article, and she's tried to teach me many times, but my mind is always racing and I can never get it down. Maybe these tips will help, if there's any time I need to meditate it's now, during summer finals... UGH these classes are fucking draining me. I'm going to go to bed now and see if I can ease my mind a little with this stuff. |
I hope it helps, I sure has helped me. It helps me think more clearly, reduces my stress, and overall I feel better when I do my daily meditations. I do about an hour long meditation a day. I started off only doing 15 minutes...I couldn't do more because of my ADD. But meditation helped with that. |
I know what you mean. I was classified as the classic ADHD kid, and it has nearly disappeared since I began my sitting practice. This may well be the Ritalin that parents want for their kids, if only they had the patience to take it themselves.
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Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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OK, I'm caught up now!
[/post whore] 
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Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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Chaoslord2004
Logician
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | My best posts on this board are usually after I took a few minutes to sit with it.
My worst posts are always when I responded in the moment; I failed to sit with it. |
I feel the same way.
| CET wrote: | | several of these thoughts are echoed by Shunryu Suzuki. I strongly recommend beginners to read his book; Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind |
I'll have to check that out. Thanks.
| CET wrote: |
I am always certain that I have not, because I am always completely aware of everything around me. Curious that we have such different experiences ... |
Perhaps i'm not doing it right...
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An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
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ChrissyFos
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | I thought the postures simply helped one not doze off... |
Sometimes after I awaken from my meditation I am unsure as to whether or not I have dozed off or not... |
That happened to me a few times when I first started meditating, because the only time my body and brain were used to feeling that relaxed was when I was asleep. I would wake up on the floor an hour or two later drooling all over myself and wondering what the heck I’d just accomplished besides a power nap. 
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ShaSha
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
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This is a terrific thread. I love that meditation is for everybody whether theistic or atheistic. It is taught universally.
I've meditated for 35 years and there are multi types of meditation so anybody who feels they aren't doing it right, try a different form. The test of a meditation being effective isn't the length of time but rather the outcome.
Do you feel more relaxed, at ease, kinder, gentler, more brilliant in mind? Then it has worked even if you only spent a few minutes. As CET has said even a few minutes of focusing on breathing will make one feel a bit better.
Some of the different types of meditation that I have experienced are prayer, conscious daydreaming, spontaneous daydreaming, Transcendental (yes, the kind that you have to pay for), walking meditation of which there are many natural variations.
Meditation soothes the savage beast. I believe that if every person on earth meditated and actually gets their balance, war would be impossible. |
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Chaoslord2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| ChrissyFos wrote: | | Chaoslord2004 wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | I thought the postures simply helped one not doze off... |
Sometimes after I awaken from my meditation I am unsure as to whether or not I have dozed off or not... |
That happened to me a few times when I first started meditating, because the only time my body and brain were used to feeling that relaxed was when I was asleep. I would wake up on the floor an hour or two later drooling all over myself and wondering what the heck I’d just accomplished besides a power nap. |
It isn't quite like that for me. I know I didn't fall asleep, but at first I'm not sure. Does that make sense?
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An artist sees beauty in a painting. I see beauty in a logical proof.
"All error is due to extraneous factors, reason itself does not err"
~Kurt Gödel |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
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Local time: 2:31 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ShaSha wrote: | This is a terrific thread. I love that meditation is for everybody whether theistic or atheistic. It is taught universally.
I've meditated for 35 years and there are multi types of meditation so anybody who feels they aren't doing it right, try a different form. The test of a meditation being effective isn't the length of time but rather the outcome.
Do you feel more relaxed, at ease, kinder, gentler, more brilliant in mind? Then it has worked even if you only spent a few minutes. As CET has said even a few minutes of focusing on breathing will make one feel a bit better.
Some of the different types of meditation that I have experienced are prayer, conscious daydreaming, spontaneous daydreaming, Transcendental (yes, the kind that you have to pay for), walking meditation of which there are many natural variations.
Meditation soothes the savage beast. I believe that if every person on earth meditated and actually gets their balance, war would be impossible. |
This is kind of a nitpick, but I think it is worth bringing up and differentiating in this discussion there is a difference between meditation and doing zazen (sitting). They are often lumped together because they appear to be the same thing, but they are not.
Meditation is the act of sitting, and holding an idea. Rinzai Zen Buddhists do this with koans (i.e., What is the sound of one hand clapping?). They meditate on the meaning of the koan. I'm sure we've all hear the phrase, "I will have to meditate on that for a while."
Zazen (sitting) is simply the act of sitting, and nothing else. If one holds a thought during their sitting, they are no longer sitting, they are meditating. Zazen is the act of releasing thoughts and allowing them to pass. Thoughts will still float around, but in zazen, one is not to become attached to them. Rather, one is to let go of one's thoughts, and allow them to pass. Zazen will eventually bring about the ability to practice "non-attachment". Non-attachment is the ability to emotionally remove oneself from a situation. I don't know about anyone else, but I've been in a few situations where non-attachment would have given me the perspective to get an outcome that would have been more constructive for everyone involved.
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Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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ShaSha
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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There are probably hundreds if not more correct ways to meditate. I've never heard of sitting. Wiki has a pretty good start on some of the various ways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation
The important thing is the doing and the results. If the results are that you feel more energetic, brighter, happier and etc. etc. then it is working. If not then give it a few more tries and maybe try a different tecnique. We are all unique on what will work for us. |
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CET
The Spiritual Atheist
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 12483
Local time: 2:31 AM
Location: SoCal, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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I think you missed my point ShaSha. I'm not saying there is a "right way" or a "wrong way" to meditate. I'm differentiating between meditation and zazen (sitting). I'm simply pointing out that they are different practices, that's all.
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Namaste,
CET
The Spiritual Atheist
"Much of the suffering in the world comes from the delusion that we are separate from one another." - Gautama Buddha
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." - George Carlin |
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ShaSha
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| CET wrote: | | I think you missed my point ShaSha. I'm not saying there is a "right way" or a "wrong way" to meditate. I'm differentiating between meditation and zazen (sitting). I'm simply pointing out that they are different practices, that's all. |
Me too  |
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