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cheapsuprise
disgraced, in exile.
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| lumpymunk wrote: | | I expect the possibility of retractions to occur when one commits a fallacy one wasn't previously aware of. Regardless of your awareness of the fallacious tactic employed, it's still fallacious and still "actually being committed." Intentions are irrelevant. |
Sure, but that's assuming you except the verdict. You have to be open to the possibility that the mod will make a mistake, or misinterpret your argument, or at least *appear to you*, to have done so. What if for example, Ivan PMs you and tells you that you just argued from a small sample bias, but your sure that your reference is statistically significant, and you can back that up with a little more exposition? In short, are you going to retract a point, even when your sure of it's validity, or are you going to contest the fallacy call? How do you want that situation to be handled?
I'm asking this now, because it would be disruptive to have to settle it in the middle of the debate.
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"-- Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than
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lumpymunk
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:48 am Post subject: |
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*What if* you start a new thread about Debate formats instead of cluttering this thread with questions that do not pertain the subject?
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cheapsuprise
disgraced, in exile.
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 7021
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| lumpymunk wrote: | | *What if* you start a new thread about Debate formats instead of cluttering this thread with questions that do not pertain the subject? |
Why should I do that? The subject IS your debate format. Your debate hasn't begun yet.
_________________
"-- Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than
feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to
be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it
is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be
dispensed with."-- Niccolò Machiavelli |
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jkorath
goo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 2920
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Before the debate starts, I'd like to say I hope this goes well. With most "hot-button" issues its impossible to find a decent debate of any kind where there aren't word games, cheap shots and rampant intellectual dishonesty
I also like the idea of a process where one debater can challenge the other on something they say if a logical fallacy can be found. We want a clean match, yes? I sure do!
Finally, a written debate is far superior to any other kind.
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"I love and treasure individuals as I meet them; I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to" -George Carlin
Celebrant: Forgive us, Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying.
Congregation: And bare-faced flattery.
--Monty Python's The Meaning of Life
"I hate conservatives, but I really fucking hate liberals." - Matt Stone |
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Bboyrican
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: 9/11 Conspiracies |
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| The interesting thing is some Athest in fact believe the dubious 9/11 claims. Brian Sapient of the National Response Squad doesm, who with his logic would think that he wouldnt believe in fanciful things but in fact does. Do some Atheist throw out logic and rational when it comes to polotics?? The interview that the girl "Kelly"did with the Rational Response Squad didnt do so well when she debated a intellectual believer who had her stumbling for words... |
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Moloth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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because the ONLY thing atheists have in common is lack of belief in a deity.
to think that we all think the same, about ANYTHING ELSE, is simply wrong and ignorant.
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rickcopeland648
The Phantom Teabagger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Does the RRS still air a show?
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“I think it’s also important for the President to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
-- George W. Bush on Clinton's involvement in Kosovo, 1999
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lumpymunk
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Why are there 5+ people posting in this thread?
...stop it.
| Quote: |
Sure, but that's assuming you except the verdict. You have to be open to the possibility that the mod will make a mistake, or misinterpret your argument, or at least *appear to you*, to have done so.
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Appeals will occur in PM's with Mods.
Mods will inform participats of problems they find. Then participants will respond.
Ultimately what the Mod says will stand, but there is no reason you shouldn't be able to appeal.
We'll have to just accept that this could possibly bias the debate, a Mod should remain cognisant of this to avoid it.
| Quote: |
What if for example, Ivan PMs you and tells you that you just argued from a small sample bias, but your sure that your reference is statistically significant, and you can back that up with a little more exposition?
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Of course, expanding on a point could be a solution, but whatever the solution is... it must be acceptable to the Mod before the bookmark quotations can be removed (see below).
| Quote: |
In short, are you going to retract a point, even when your sure of it's validity, or are you going to contest the fallacy call?
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To be clear here, there is no rush on this. No timeline is necessary. However the clarification or retraction occurs it doesn't have to happen immediately... the urgency when resolving a particular problem will be based on how frequently the material is referenced, or how Key it is to the argument, this will be largely up to the Mod to decide.
How quickly a problem reaches resolution should correlate to it's importance in the discussion.
| Quote: |
How do you want that situation to be handled?
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When a Mod becomes aware of a problem he should highlight the problem in the thread using a quote bracket and some label for why the quote is being contested. This will serve as a bookmark for everyone.
Base Examples:
| No Citation wrote: | | I think X, Y, Z but have no references or support for the claim. |
| Ad Hominem wrote: | | I think all CT's are just like Creationists! |
Upon finding a problem and highlighting it the Mod should PM the participant and make them aware of the problem. The bookmark remains until the Mod Okays the solution.
If the posters are not mature enough to refrain from removing bookmark quotations placed by mods then we won't be able to have a discussion. Plain and simple.
I'm pretty much counting on posters to be decent about this and not undo what a Mod does just because they disagree. You should contest the Mods judgement in the PM responding to his notification.
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FlatEarth1024
Moral Assassin
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 3305
Local time: 12:47 AM
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| lumpymunk wrote: | Why are there 5+ people posting in this thread?
...stop it. |
I believe that since the thread is titled "Debate Request" most people are thinking this thread is simply setting the parameters and providing information. In fact, I think Cheap said that a few posts up. I think people are expecting a dedicated This-is-the-actual-debate thread that they will respectfully abstain from posting in.
That's the feeling I'm getting anyway. Perhaps you should start the dedicated thread for privacy's sake. |
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Mr_C
Moderator
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, let's have the debate already. 
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"If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?"
Carl Sagan
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Ivan_Ivanov
Administrator
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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I decided to move the thread over here, the "one-on-one discussion" forum should be for one-on-one discussions.
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It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
This is not a complex idea.
The LOVE SHACK. Friendly, civil, heavily moderated... coming to a forum near you. |
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jkorath
goo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 2920
Local time: 4:47 PM
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: 9/11 Conspiracies |
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| Bboyrican wrote: | | The interesting thing is some Athest in fact believe the dubious 9/11 claims. Brian Sapient of the National Response Squad doesm, who with his logic would think that he wouldnt believe in fanciful things but in fact does. Do some Atheist throw out logic and rational when it comes to polotics?? The interview that the girl "Kelly"did with the Rational Response Squad didnt do so well when she debated a intellectual believer who had her stumbling for words... |
Rational Response Squad doesn't represent anyone but themselves. Please don't assume we support them here.
_________________
"I love and treasure individuals as I meet them; I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to" -George Carlin
Celebrant: Forgive us, Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying.
Congregation: And bare-faced flattery.
--Monty Python's The Meaning of Life
"I hate conservatives, but I really fucking hate liberals." - Matt Stone |
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lumpymunk
Forum Leader
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 1889
Local time: 7:47 PM
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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As soon as barkatthemoon responds with any corrections or clarifications about what's been laid forth here we'll begin. I think he said he was on vacation or something.
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Moloth
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rickcopeland648
The Phantom Teabagger
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 2589
Local time: 12:47 AM
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Moloth wrote: | | he's meeting with the Jews who did 9/11 for advice. |
Isn't it always the fuckin' Jews? The Rick Copeland knew "The Protocol of the Elders of Zion" (Zion as in Jewland and not Zion as in Utah) was on to something...
Or should The Rick Copeland have posted this in the "Who Hates the Jews?" thread?
_________________
“I think it’s also important for the President to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
-- George W. Bush on Clinton's involvement in Kosovo, 1999
"Syphilis is the algebra of infection."
(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
Can't... fight... any... longer... must.. help.. bunny.. achieve.. global.. domination.. All.. hail... bunny...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by rickcopeland648 on Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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