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Isambard
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 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genome#Variation
Ill address your main pt tommorow when I am not exhasted. gnight
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Philosophos
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:21 am Post subject: |
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The 1/100 to 1/1000 SNP prevalance doesn't have a primary source cited. The "99.9%" similarity does - a speech by President Clinton.
I'm really not sure that Wikipedia's addressing the concerns I brought up in my last post.
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tonyman1989
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | tonyman1989 wrote: | not when you have commited the only unforgivable sin.  |
Masturbating to episodes of "The Golden Girls"? |
no being an atheist but that sames pretty unforgivable 
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http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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Nimitz
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: |
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I saw a bottleneck theory on the History Channel as well. (or the science channel, or the bottleneck channel? Hey it's 5am!) It used mitocondrial DNA (sp?) to show a drastic reduction in the human population. But the age of the bottleneck was far older than recorded history. It showed the human race almost went extinct. But it coincided with an ice age or a meteor strike, or cable tv went out or something other than a flood. Again it's 5am and I just woke up and I'm heading to work. I'll see if I can find something about it later. (after a pot of tea and a nap at work) 
Isn't modern homo sapiens as a species about 125,000 years old? |
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Isambard
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Philosophos wrote: | The 1/100 to 1/1000 SNP prevalance doesn't have a primary source cited. The "99.9%" similarity does - a speech by President Clinton.
I'm really not sure that Wikipedia's addressing the concerns I brought up in my last post. |
Nimitz said it best. I first heard about the bottle-neck effect from my Introduction to Political science Proff when he tried to give examples of times when all of humanity tried to work together, and again in my second yr from my Evolutionary Biology Proff when we looked at Human evolution.
You dont seem that interested that these stories are very similar thematically. Plenty of humans doing bad things, gods get pissed. Gods decide to wipe out humanity. A man and a woman (and somtimes a few animals and another couple) are spared and re-populate in a now almost barren world.
As mentioned by Nimitz, human genetic variation does not match the species' age. So something scared the crap out of our ancestors so much so that even today the memory of that event isnt completely forgotten. Id say the almost complete extinction of the hominides would do it.
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Composite things are like dreams. Fantasies. Bubbles. Thoughts. Like a dewdrop and a flash of lightning. A new dress and a burning tire. Waves of sand and sinking ships. The shadow of a statue, and an entry in a diary. A brain tumor and an ice cream sundae. We are thus to be recorded. |
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Nimitz
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Other hominds went extinct, we came close to it. I don't know about the ingrained memory thing.
But just think how much different the Geico commercials would be if neandrothals would have made it and we didn't. |
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Gerard
Nemesis (archly so)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Isambard wrote: | | As mentioned by Nimitz, human genetic variation does not match the species' age. So something scared the crap out of our ancestors so much so that even today the memory of that event isnt completely forgotten. Id say the almost complete extinction of the hominides would do it. |
I don't think the conclusion that the bottleneck is an occurence not yet completely forgotten can be drawn from flood myths. I wonder when that bottleneck event was supposed to have happened in homonid history b.t.w.
Gerard
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FlatEarth1024
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Nimitz wrote: | Other hominds went extinct, we came close to it. I don't know about the ingrained memory thing.
But just think how much different the Geico commercials would be if neandrothals would have made it and we didn't. |
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Philosophos
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Isambard wrote: | | Nimitz said it best. I first heard about the bottle-neck effect from my Introduction to Political science Proff when he tried to give examples of times when all of humanity tried to work together, and again in my second yr from my Evolutionary Biology Proff when we looked at Human evolution. |
*shrugs* Dunno anything about it myself.
| Quote: | | You dont seem that interested that these stories are very similar thematically. |
I would be if they were, but they're not.
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anamoly
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Isambard wrote: | | You dont seem that interested that these stories are very similar thematically. |
If you look at that wiki article that you used, and read all the different kinds of flood stories...the only theme that carries throughout them all is: Lots of water.
Some of the flood stories don't say anything about Gods being pissed. Others there are more than 2 people who survive to repopulate (even one of them has only one woman who repopulates the earth).
Civilization starts near a water source. Why? Um...People get thristy. People want to bathe. People need to water crops to make food to eat...cuz....you know....people get hungry. Time passes and the water source floods and it sucks hard. It happens...rivers and lakes and such flood really bad during really bad storms...The Mississippi flooded. The Nile flooded. Lake Titicaca Flooded. Water sources flood if there is a lot of rain.
Okay yeah dur, you know this. Now. It's not surprising that civilizations have "flood stories" becuase the area around which they live has water and so on blah blah. It doesn't mean that there was a worldwide flood disaster that covered the earth. To these early civilizations, the whole world was the area that stretched within a reasonable trekking distance around the water source. The world to them only became larger as people started moving out (wagons and horses dragging food and water until they found another water source to populate around) and as people met other people and began trade or war for their resources.
Basically Flood stories are about relativity. The stories are relative to the culture and the magnitutde relative to what the people knew about their world at the time.
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rickcopeland648
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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As The Rick Copeland recalls, Bob Price once mentioned a Chinese flood myth (the Yellow River is prone to flooding as well) in which the Chinese defeat the flood. Does anyone else recall that?
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Last edited by rickcopeland648 on Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Philosophos
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yep. That's an early Bible Geek episode.
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rickcopeland648
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Shit, The Rick Copeland was hoping he just made that up...
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“I think it’s also important for the President to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”
-- George W. Bush on Clinton's involvement in Kosovo, 1999
"Syphilis is the algebra of infection."
(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
Can't... fight... any... longer... must.. help.. bunny.. achieve.. global.. domination.. All.. hail... bunny...
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Philosophos
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe it's one of these two myths: they're both Chinese, and both have the protagonists beating back the flood in the end (from here:
| Quote: | The Supreme Sovereign ordered the water god Gong Gong to create a flood as punishment and warning for human misbehavior. Gong Gong extended the flood for 22 years, and people had to live in high mountain caves and in trees, fighting with wild animals for scarce resources. Unable to persuade the Supreme Sovereign to stop the flood, and told by an owl and a turkey about _Xirang_ or Growing Soil, the supernatural hero Gun stole Growing Soil from heaven to dam the waters. Before Gun was finished, however, the Supreme Sovereign sent the fire god Zhu Rong to execute him for his theft. The Growing Soil was taken back to heaven, and the floods continued. However, Gun's body didn't decay, and when it was cut apart three years later, his son Yu emerged in the form of a horned dragon. Gun's body also transformed into a dragon at that time and thenceforth lived quietly in the deeps. The Supreme Sovereign was fearful of Yu's power, so he cooperated and gave Yu the Growing Soil and the use of the dragon Ying. Yu led other gods to drive away Gong Gong, distributed the Growing Soil to remove most of the flood, and led the people to fashion rivers from Ying's tracks and thus channel the remaining floodwaters to the sea. [Walls, pp. 94-100]
The goddess Nu Kua fought and defeated the chief of a neighboring tribe, driving him up a mountain. The chief, chagrined at being defeated by a woman, beat his head against the Heavenly Bamboo with the aim of wreaking vengeance on his enemies and killing himself. He knocked it down, tearing a hole in the sky. Floods poured out, inundating the world and killing everyone but Nu Kua and her army; her divinity made her and her followers safe from it. Nu Kua patched the hole with a plaster made from stones of five different colors, and the floods ceased. [Werner, p. 225; Vitaliano, p. 163] |
ZOMG! Did you notice how that last story had an opening in the sky that let water down from the heavens, just like the OT? Maybe water really does come from holes in the firmament, and not from the clouds!
And did you notice the dragons? How come so many cultures have dragon legends?
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Sultan Borat
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think we should be building our own Ark and bringing our own cataclysm
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