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Whitefox
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Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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Local time: 10:14 PM
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1st of many questions... |
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| dragomike wrote: | Wait, forgive me if I don't understand. Basically you're saying that a person can cast his problems to God instead of confronting his flaws, and being saved sooner and go to Paradise early by more groveling and whining to God. So let me get this straight, Yes people can all be Christians, but they aren't perfect Christians because they "walk in darkness" and the better Christians who memorize the "Word" and follow its "tenets" will go to Heaven quickly; this is why there is division in the Church. Tell me which denomination is more "accurate" and how this is helpful to the individual because I fail to see this point.
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No its considered undesirble to have their lives end early. The bible says to Christians "You are not your own. You were bought with a price." Its a solemn statement. They musn't go on to pretend they are their own after commiting to God. The bible says that we are to become willing servants to God. Unwilling ones becasue they are not their own any more may have their lives ended early. Even this negative outcome is merciful in that their eternal salvation is not threatened. The Holy Spirit lives in the Christian for all eternity that is what gives them eternal life. Not eternal life it were to be able to be stopped in any way including disobedience. So God has a merciful remedy for disobedience that maintains their eternal life.
| Quote: | 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
The New King James Version. 1982 (1 Co 11:28-32). Nashville: Thomas Nelson. |
| Quote: | 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. 19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
The New King James Version. 1982 (Jn 14:15-21). Nashville: Thomas Nelson. |
| dragomike wrote: | | Oh hey, does persecution and destruction of Egyptian symbols and temples by the Coptics bring to mind? Oh, and do I have to mention Inquisition and Crusade? Your bible has your own hypocrisies and contradictions that people follow to the letter, even if it means destruction of the mind of the individual. |
I think you are confusing the idea that a nation can be thought of as a Christian nation, meaning that all individuals in that nation are Christians. I believe that in the name of God many non-christians who think they are chrisitans have done all kinds of evil things. And Christians who are walking in darkness may also be among them who have done the wrong things. The persecution and inquisitions was done in what is called the "dark ages". Dark precisely because people were not walking in the light of Christ as they ought. If they were christians which I doubt they certainly grieved God as stated is possible even by Christians to do.
| Quote: | 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
The New King James Version. 1982 (Eph 4:29-32). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
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All that instruction in that scripture is to Christians. It wouldn't have been written to them if they did not have the poblems addressed. Christians are merely sinners who have admitted it. They are no different than other sinners who do not admit it.
The Bible says you can have eternal life if you admit your sins and repent of them and confess your need of the salvation that Christ offers from the second death.
| dragomike wrote: | | But please answer me, if Jesus died for my sins, then why did my ancestors WAY to the east south of China NEVER EVER heard of him? |
God has always had the same plan of salvation even for those who never heard of Jesus. The plan was that they would recognize God in creation. And if they chose to worship the creator they were saved. If they chose to worship created things they were not. God measures their faith and what they place their faith in. It is possible some of your ancestors found God and worshiped Him. It is nothing that a man does that saves him from the second death it is whether he places his trust in God or not that saves him. (Hebrews 11) in the bible tells us this.
| dragomike wrote: | | So far you still haven't shown evidence of why you're religion is true, and this is just blatant preaching. |
My religion is based on whatever the Holy Bible says. The reason I believe the Bible is because it is the only book that proved itself by 100% short term prophecies and it continues to prove itself by long term prophecies some of which are still coming true today. I submitted the rules for accepting the books in the bible in another thread earlier today.
I dont know how to put a link to it so I'll quote it.
| Whitefox wrote: | | lumpymunk wrote: | I'll illustrate by comparing the two processes....
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I wish to illustrate the Process that was used to determine the Holy Bible as the word of God. The Bible is a compilation of written documents gathered over 1500 year containing 66 seperate small books written by over 30 seperate authors who for the most part never met each other. But this diagram illustrates what they had in common and why their writings were collected and bound as the book we have today that we call the Holy Bible.
God provided a scientific method to determine whether to listen to a prophet. A true prophet is 100% accurate 100% of the time. That is because a person cannot quess accurately the future 100% of the time unless God wispers the answers in his ear. Calling yourself a prophet is a deadly profession as to be proven wrong was a capital offence. There is one case in the bible where 300 false prophets were cealed in a tomb alive for making errors in their predictions. You can visit the tomb today where they are on a visit to Israel. Moses passed the test of 100% accurate short term prophecy by making 10 prophecies in a row regarding what would happen to Pharoh if he didn't let the Israelis leave Egypt. They all happened. He continued to make prophecies that occured regarding water comming from a rock. Water parting to allow passage accross a great river. These things are recorded as miracles but they were also prophecies that came true. That is why the people kept the writings of moses the first five books of the bible. And thats why they accepted his writings as revelations from God. That is also why the writing of the bible ended 2000 years ago.
The greatest prophet who ever lived came 2000 years ago and prophecied his own death and resurection. 500 people witnessed him in risen form. They went to early graves dying martyrs deaths proclaiming the truth of having met him as risen from the dead. The truth of what they believed is sealed with their blood. I believe what they believed as they testified with their lives to the truth of what they recorded. We call that truth the New Testament scriptures.
That is why whatever Mohammed said is rejected today as Mohammed himself said he was not a prophet and he never made a 100% verifyable prophecy during his lifetime. How so many can call him the great prophet today in the middle east I cannot understand.
Nostradamos and Jean Dixon would have been killed as false prophets. They don't qualify as prophets according to the Bible Deut 18 scientific method. Jean said that the Vietnam war would never end and would become world war three for example.
God does not encourage blind faith. In one of the psalms he says "Come and let us reason together." He allows us to use our understanding to believe in him. 25 percent of the bible contains future telling prophey. half of the prophecies have been fulfilled and prove the credibility of the authors of the bible. The other half are being fulfilled before our very eyes today.
God Bless,
Ray Luff (Whitefox) |
_________________
For God sent not His son to condemn the world but that through Him the world might be saved. (from the 2nd death.) http://bibledoor.blogspot.com and http://bibledoor.no-ip.org
Last edited by Whitefox on Sun May 20, 2007 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Roll
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Joined: 22 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Whitefox: Have you any idea at all how ridiculous you sound to me? You have not got one thought in your head you haven't found in your particular version of "god bothering for dummies".
Imagine getting all your references for life from the ground breaking work; The Teletubbies Picnic On The Moon. It makes absolutely no more sense to me than that.
And while I'm at it. Keep your sinning nonsense to yourself. I have never sinned nor will I ever do. This is a petty minded, guilt-inducing christian construct. I may do good things or bad things - I will never sin. Your book sucks. Go and read some other books. |
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Nimitz
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Whitefox have you ever heard of the no true scotsman fallacy? 
I think it just about cover your last post about true xians™.
As far as prophecies coming true, all good books of fiction do the same thing.
In Moby Dick short term prophecies are made as well as long term, and 100% came true. Chapter one: Tomorrow we set sail (short term) and find the great white whale.(long term) In chapter two they go to sea, in chapter twelve they find the whale.  Praise Melville! Herman be thy name!
DragonMike said: | Quote: | But please answer me, if Jesus died for my sins, then why did my ancestors WAY to the east south of China NEVER EVER heard of him?
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Same goes for everyone living in the Americas. S.O.L. I guess. |
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Whitefox
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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This post is in response to the challenge "PROVE IT".
God used Prophecy and established his spokesmen as prophets in the eyes of the people by revealing short term 100% verifiable events through them. When these persons became established as prophets this way then God used these people to reveal his non-prophetic instructions. For example Moses predicted the 10 plagues that would befall Egypt leading up to the Pharaoh allowing the Jews to leave their captivity in Egypt. The people saw with their own eyes all the things that happened and then God revealed through Moses the ten commandments. No one questioned these as having come from God because they knew the messenger (Moses) had proven himself to be a true prophet of god. Even though the ten commandments are discarded today, they still form the root of much of our legislation in western societies today. We still believe you shouldn't kill, steal, cheat etcetera. But we don’t tend to give God credit for our enforcing these rules in our society as we ought.
Proof against these prophecies of the bible would be to be able to prove that any of the 500 or so that have been fulfilled could never be fulfilled. One such prophecy declares that the Messiah would be cut-off in the year AD 29 by my calculations of the prophecy. And it further declares that the Temple of Jerusalem would be destroyed after that. We know as a fact of history the temple was destroyed in 70 ad. And the first holocaust of the Jews occurred wherein 2,000,000 of them were slaughtered causing what History records as the great discursion (scattering) of the Jews to all the remote areas of the earth. The prophet Daniel predicted these things would happen. You can prove the temple was destroyed by visiting the wailing wall in Jerusalem. You can prove therefore that a Messiah could not come after that event as it had to be within the generation that had already seen the Messiah "Cut-Off". For those interested in the details of this prophecy I provide this link. http://bibledoor.no-ip.org/pdf/eng_annointed_one.pdf
But the Bible prophecies do not end there. They continue to prophecy the return of the Nation of Israel to their homeland. Until this actually happened in 1948 the majority of Christian Bible interpreters assumed that references to Jerusalem in the Bible were to be fulfilled by the Christian church. But some of them that believed what the Bible had to say without altering it to mean something else always believed the Jews themselves were the ones being spoken of. The Jewish nation today is the ultimate proof of Prophecy coming true in the Bible. Who questions that they are now back in their land. What other nation has been able to exist without a country for nearly 2000 years of excile? Who expects the Incas who went out of existence 1000 years ago to make a come back?
Here is a very short list of prophecies that are being fulfilled today. (Not intended to be exhaustive)
1. Man's ability to annihilate life
| Quote: | | "It will be a time of great distress; there has never been such a time from the beginning of the world until now, and will never be again. If that time of troubles were not cut short, no living thing could survive; but for the sake of God's chosen it will be cut short" (Matthew 24:21-22) |
| Quote: | | "The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great, and should destroy those who destroy the earth" -Revelation 11:18. |
Only in recent decades has humanity had the fearful capacity to "destroy the earth"!
2. A new power on the world stage.[/quote]
| Quote: | 36 “This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. 37 You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38 and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all— you are this head of gold. 39 But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. 41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”
The New King James Version. 1982 - Da 2:36-45. Nashville: Thomas Nelson. |
History records that the world has been dominated by kingdoms which resemble this prophecy. The first four kingdoms of this prophecy compare to the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greco-Macedonian and Roman empires. There is only one remaining kingdom that must exist prior to the end of the world as we know it. It is the one referred to as Iron mixed with Clay. I believe this describes Democracy. In some aspects it is not as strong as governments change constantly. I believe the world stage is being set for there to be a one world government again based on Democracy. That is why both Bushes kept referring to "A new world order". That phrase has been repeated over and over in recent history.
3. Catastrophic Climatic Changes were prophesied]
| Quote: | | 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. - Matt 24:6-8 |
These things are beginning to happen. Until very recently the alarm was being ignored that the world really is changing climatically. Now majority opinion is beginning to agree that changes such have never been seen before really are happening today. *Thanks partly to All Gore recently* .
3. Modern Israel
| Quote: | | 32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. - Matt 24:32-34 |
The stage is being set today for this. It was all prophesied in the Bible.
Here is a very short list of prophecies which can be proven to have failed.
(none)
_________________
For God sent not His son to condemn the world but that through Him the world might be saved. (from the 2nd death.) http://bibledoor.blogspot.com and http://bibledoor.no-ip.org |
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Polaris
Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1385
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Whitefox wrote:
| Quote: | | Who questions that they are now back in their land |
Funny, Jews never really left in full, not to mention the state of Israel today is nowhere near the size of the biblical land!
| Quote: | | History records that the world has been dominated by kingdoms which resemble this prophecy. The first four kingdoms of this prophecy compare to the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greco-Macedonian and Roman empires. |
Gee, do you think others might arise with the same description based on history.........uh......
| Quote: | | And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. - Matt 24:6-8 |
Like this hasn't been going on for all of recorded history and beyond.......lol! |
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Nimitz
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | God used Prophecy and established his spokesmen as prophets in the eyes of the people by revealing short term 100% verifiable events through them. When these persons became established as prophets this way then God used these people to reveal his non-prophetic instructions. For example Moses predicted the 10 plagues that would befall Egypt leading up to the Pharaoh allowing the Jews to leave their captivity in Egypt. The people saw with their own eyes all the things that happened and then God revealed through Moses the ten commandments. No one questioned these as having come from God because they knew the messenger (Moses) had proven himself to be a true prophet of god. |
Again all fiction writters do the same thing. Good proof reading means you score 100% in the prediction dept.
| Quote: | Even though the ten commandments are discarded today, they still form the root of much of our legislation in western societies today. We still believe you shouldn't kill, steal, cheat etcetera. But we don’t tend to give God credit for our enforcing these rules in our society as we ought.
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2 of the ten commandment coincide with U.S. law. (false wittness only applies in court) U.S. common law is not based on christianity, or English law for that matter. The laws against murder, stealing, ect. were part of common law in England before christianity arrived. The argument that America is based on the buy-bull is a dishonest rewritting of history.
| Quote: | | But the Bible prophecies do not end there. They continue to prophecy the return of the Nation of Israel to their homeland. Until this actually happened in 1948 the majority of Christian Bible interpreters assumed that references to Jerusalem in the Bible were to be fulfilled by the Christian church. |
And that's the problem. As soon as a new event occures the prophecies are reinterpreted again. No different than Nostradamus' predictions. Stir the tea leave one more time and see what they say now.
Using the buy-bull to prove the buy-bull is circular reasoning 101.
Monty Python's Life of Brain
Scene 14
BLOOD & THUNDER PROPHET: ...And the bezan shall be huge and black, and the
eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the whore of
Babylon shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the
lands, there'll be a great rubbing of parts. Yeeah...
FALSE PROPHET: ...For the demon shall bear a nine-bladed sword. Nine-bladed!
Not two or five or seven, but nine, which he will wield on all wretched
sinners, sinners just like you, sir, there, and the horns shall be on the
head, with which he will...
BORING PROPHET: ...Obadiah, his servants. There shall, in that time, be
rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion
as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth
those little things wi-- with the sort of raffia work base that has an
attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and
the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers
that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight
o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that, in that time,
shall the third one...
Pick a prophet. Any prophet.
| Quote: | | Here is a very short list of prophecies which can be proven to have failed. |
Matthew 24:34
This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
That generation died 2000 years ago.
Stir your tea leaves again and reinterpreted again. |
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rickyroma
Repressed hippy
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 6516
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Location: England
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Roll wrote: | It really is time we stopped effin around. There is more than enough information available to anyone that cares to look for it, to debunk all the nonsense that is religion, of whatever flavour you care to mention. What is this forum to a Christian? Ask the atheist? Like some kind of curiosity?
I respect BobSpence in his attempt to educate and inform, which he does with educated authority, but sometimes I think we have to be able to say, stop talking your nonsense, stop trying to run my country, stop your morbid brainwashed insinuations, grow up, get a life, get an education and stop making me angry about the things that you do. |
Welcome Roll!
This forum has no single purpose. I'm simply some guy who logs in to break up my work for a bit of light relief. I rarely engage in substantial debate, never in activism, and post here for no other reason than to pass the time.
I am also fascinated by life's Big Questions. And I'm fascinated by those who claim not just to know the answers, but to know them in elaborate detail and, what's more, to be certain they are absolutely right.
That's just me. Others come here as part of their activism, some simply to vent their frustration, others for moral support during de-conversion, and others just to have a little like-minded company in this crazy old world.
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Theists wank too. |
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atheod
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: Re: 1st of many questions... |
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| Castro wrote: |
Sorry for being long winded but I guess my 1st question is, what do Atheists believe in? I mean as far as morals and such goes. Christains supposedly have morals b/c of their belief/faith in God, so they are governed by a set of rules. This is what keeps them moral. Without these "rules", such as Atheists live w/o, what kind of morals do they have? |
Atheist morals are whatever they feel like coming up with. |
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Gerard
Nemesis (archly so)
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Location: Groningen, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: Re: 1st of many questions... |
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| atheod wrote: | | Castro wrote: |
Sorry for being long winded but I guess my 1st question is, what do Atheists believe in? I mean as far as morals and such goes. Christains supposedly have morals b/c of their belief/faith in God, so they are governed by a set of rules. This is what keeps them moral. Without these "rules", such as Atheists live w/o, what kind of morals do they have? |
Atheist morals are whatever they feel like coming up with. |
All theists however are perfectly consistent in their morals.
Gerard
_________________
The Historical Atlas of Europe
But as man exists in nature, I am not authorized to say that his formation, is above the power of nature.
Paul Henri Thiry Baron d' Holbach, (1723-1789)
Not collecting stamps is my hobby.
Gerard, (1962-*) |
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Nimitz
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | All theists however are perfectly consistent in their morals.
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In other words, we eat babies!
/extra crispy please! |
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Moloth
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Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: Re: 1st of many questions... |
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| atheod wrote: | | Castro wrote: |
Sorry for being long winded but I guess my 1st question is, what do Atheists believe in? I mean as far as morals and such goes. Christains supposedly have morals b/c of their belief/faith in God, so they are governed by a set of rules. This is what keeps them moral. Without these "rules", such as Atheists live w/o, what kind of morals do they have? |
Atheist morals are whatever they feel like coming up with. |
because, ya know, stoning people to death for wearing two kinds of cloth makes SO much more sense.
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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tonyman1989
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Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: Re: 1st of many questions... |
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| Castro wrote: | First of all, I am only putting this in the Christianity section b/c that is the belief I know most about and like I said in my introduction, have been raised in Christianity for well, I am 26 now.
"You have to put your faith in God b/c he(he only used in the masculate sense, not reference to sex) knows what is best and has a plan for you"
This is probably the best answer that a devote Christian can come up with when I ask about why we should believe and pray to God/Jesus. I do have to admit that I have believed for a very long time and I have had bad things happen to me and good things happen to me. When something good happened it was God blessing me, but when something bad happened, it was b/c I was being tested or b/c I was not being "faithful".
Sorry for being long winded but I guess my 1st question is, what do Atheists believe in? I mean as far as morals and such goes. Christains supposedly have morals b/c of their belief/faith in God, so they are governed by a set of rules. This is what keeps them moral. Without these "rules", such as Atheists live w/o, what kind of morals do they have? |
athesit believe in all the things you do expect the belief of a deity. morals come from compassion not religion. religion just takes the credit.
My belief is that compassion comes from evolution we needed because we are social animals but that doesn't make it anyless special.
_________________
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: Re: 1st of many questions... |
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| atheod wrote: | | Castro wrote: |
Sorry for being long winded but I guess my 1st question is, what do Atheists believe in? I mean as far as morals and such goes. Christains supposedly have morals b/c of their belief/faith in God, so they are governed by a set of rules. This is what keeps them moral. Without these "rules", such as Atheists live w/o, what kind of morals do they have? |
Atheist morals are whatever they feel like coming up with. |
..based on previous experience, attempts to alleviate suffering, a wanting to be fair, love of freedom, and treating people with the respect that they deserve.
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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tonyman1989
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Local time: 12:14 PM
Location: I was hoping you could tell me.
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: Re: 1st of many questions... |
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| Moloth wrote: |
because, ya know, stoning people to death for wearing two kinds of cloth makes SO much more sense. |
almost everything is better then that.
_________________
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Albert Einstein
"For then we will know the mind of God." Stephen Hawking
"We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes." Richard Dawkins
http://www.atheistforums.com/weblog.php?w=22 Tonyman1989 blog's - updated on 8/28/07 - An interview of steven weinberg on religion |
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anamoly
Recess Monitor
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 682
Local time: 11:14 AM
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: Re: 1st of many questions... |
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| Castro wrote: | First of all, I am only putting this in the Christianity section b/c that is the belief I know most about and like I said in my introduction, have been raised in Christianity for well, I am 26 now.
"You have to put your faith in God b/c he(he only used in the masculate sense, not reference to sex) knows what is best and has a plan for you"
This is probably the best answer that a devote Christian can come up with when I ask about why we should believe and pray to God/Jesus. I do have to admit that I have believed for a very long time and I have had bad things happen to me and good things happen to me. When something good happened it was God blessing me, but when something bad happened, it was b/c I was being tested or b/c I was not being "faithful".
Sorry for being long winded but I guess my 1st question is, what do Atheists believe in? I mean as far as morals and such goes. Christains supposedly have morals b/c of their belief/faith in God, so they are governed by a set of rules. This is what keeps them moral. Without these "rules", such as Atheists live w/o, what kind of morals do they have? |
*I haven't read the responses to this thread yet because I'd like to answer your question first*
What kind of morals or 'rules' do Atheists live with? Sorry to disappoint but religion doesn't have the monopoly on rules and morals. It is society that decides what is acceptable and unacceptable. If people want to live within the society, they have to follow the rules and get along with those people. Ultimately, it comes down to personal decision and the analyzation of cause and effect.
Example:
A christian walks down the street and sees a homeless man begging for change. The christian would give him money becuase Jesus would have wanted him to.
An atheist walks downt the street and sees a homeless man begging for change. The atheist wold give him money because he feels it would be the right thing to do for a myriad of reasons. 'What if I was homeless, I'd like someone to give me a chance." "Oh it's just a couple dollars, I've got a bunch in the bank." "I want to feel good about myself today and helping someone would make it happen."
A christian walks into a store and sees an oppurtunity to place something in her purse and make a getaway. The Christian would not do it and maybe even point out the security breach because Jesus would have wanted her to.
An atheist walks into a store and sees an oppurtunity to place something in her purse and make a getaway. The atheist would not do it and maybe even point out the security breach because of a myriad of reasons. "Geez, I know what it's like to be in retail and I hate it when that happens to me." "I don't want to get caught and pay a fine, or worse go to jail." "I don't want my friends or my family to think I'm just a petty thief." "I wouldn't feel right about it."
Being an atheist doesn't mean that I make wrong decisions all the time and that I don't know how to fit in to society. It means I can make the decision to do the right thing for a lot of different reasons (and very logical ones) other than just some imaginary best friend whose son died on a cross.
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I is dsylexic.
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Just because I don't put my life story in my signature, doesn't make me uninteresting....I'd like to think I'm mysterious. |
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