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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1603
Local time: 6:53 AM
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 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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You kind of responsibility is like when Bush takes it and then tells everyone to fuck off. It is meaningless. When I say responsibility I mean to everyone around you and not just yourself. You don't have a clue. Now put me on your Ignore list. You're nothing more than a troll and one who was erroneously given too much authority. Everything was going fine until you started into your tirade. Its your responsibility for what is happening now, not mine. If you know what responsibility is, as you assert, than live up to it and shut the fuck up yourself. You came looking for a fight. I didn't, but I will defend myself. The other trolls I can add to my ignore list, but I can't add you because of your position. As I said, its all up to you. If I'm a child than shouldn't you act like the adult you claim to be?
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America is not worth the effort anymore. RIP. It was suicide. |
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caseagainstfaith
God's gift to atheism
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 3572
Local time: 10:53 AM
Location: Houston, TX USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: |
The problem is that the value of the coin is tied to its weight. |
| caseagainstfaith wrote: | 
US and Canada have been off the gold standard for quite a while now... |
I'm not seeing how that makes a difference. |
Obviously, there is something that is alluding me. But, my point was, it used to be that the monetary value of a coin was directly tied to the amount of precious metal it had, but not anymore. (I think, I confess to not being any expert on currency.) But, I can say that I am pretty sure that a nickel doesn't weigh five times as much as a penny, or a dime twice as much as the nickel, or a dollar coin or dollar bill weigh ten times as much as a dime, etc.
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Please visit my site at www.caseagainstfaith.com featuring critiques of Lee Strobel and other apologetics
Check out my InfidelGuy interviews, tapes 117 and 269 |
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caseagainstfaith
God's gift to atheism
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 3572
Local time: 10:53 AM
Location: Houston, TX USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | You're nothing more than a troll and one who was erroneously given too much authority. Everything was going fine until you started into your tirade. |
Oh for crying out fucking loud. It was you that started on a tirade. And Cheap isn't a troll.
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Please visit my site at www.caseagainstfaith.com featuring critiques of Lee Strobel and other apologetics
Check out my InfidelGuy interviews, tapes 117 and 269 |
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cheapsuprise
disgraced, in exile.
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 7248
Local time: 2:53 AM
Location: Next door.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | You kind of responsibility is like when Bush takes it and then tells everyone to fuck off. It is meaningless. When I say responsibility I mean to everyone around you and not just yourself. You don't have a clue. Now put me on your Ignore list. You're nothing more than a troll and one who was erroneously given too much authority. Everything was going fine until you started into your tirade. Its your responsibility for what is happening now, not mine. If you know what responsibility is, as you assert, than live up to it and shut the fuck up yourself. You came looking for a fight. I didn't, but I will defend myself. The other trolls I can add to my ignore list, but I can't add you because of your position. As I said, its all up to you. If I'm a child than shouldn't you act like the adult you claim to be? |
Talk to the HAND SJC. If you try to blow smoke up some one's ass about the rules again, I will be there to refute that bullshit. COUNT ON IT.
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"-- Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than
feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to
be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it
is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be
dispensed with."-- Niccolò Machiavelli |
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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1603
Local time: 6:53 AM
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| caseagainstfaith wrote: | | Oh for crying out fucking loud. It was you that started on a tirade. And Cheap isn't a troll. |
Yes, he is. And what tirade?
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America is not worth the effort anymore. RIP. It was suicide. |
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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1603
Local time: 6:53 AM
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| cheapsuprise wrote: | | Talk to the HAND SJC. If you try to blow smoke up some one's ass about the rules again, I will be there to refute that bullshit. COUNT ON IT. |
BTW, I never expected you to actually be a man. You don't have one clue of what responsibility actually means, but than again you don't know a good many things mean. Now, put me on your ignore list and the board can get back to being civil again. Or are you going to continue being a child yourself. You prove me right by not doing this. Its all up to you, as always.
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America is not worth the effort anymore. RIP. It was suicide. |
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cheapsuprise
disgraced, in exile.
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 7248
Local time: 2:53 AM
Location: Next door.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: |
BTW, I never expected you to actually be a man. You don't have one clue of what responsibility actually means, but than again you don't know a good many things mean. Now, put me on your ignore list and the board can get back to being civil again. |
No. This is going to be the way it goes: You do not control these forums, myself, or any other mod. We ask nothing of the membership except that they observe 4 very reasonable rules. We don't like flame wars, but we understand them. You have as much right to behave like a cantankerous ass hole as everyone else. If you indulge in this while expecting others to be held to a higher standard you can not expect action on our part, or even sympathy.
If you truly desire responsibility for your actions to be taken out of your hands, then by all means, continue.
IOW, if I hear another word from you on this mater-- ONE MORE WORD, I will convoke a dialogue in the tower.
This is a warning.
_________________
"-- Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than
feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to
be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it
is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be
dispensed with."-- Niccolò Machiavelli |
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 6674
Local time: 11:53 AM
Location: Den Helder, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | BTW, I never expected you to.... blablabla........Its all up to you, as always. |
[here goes the modhat again]Not only has the Cheapster informed you there was no cause for sanctions, I too have let you know where our penal restrictions lie. That's two administrators in a row you've been informed by. Now if you want to make lame-ass remarks about my manlyhood or what you never expected from me, be my guest and embarrass yourself further.[/sigh]
And no, I'm not going to put you on ignore either.
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~ Let us be reasonable ~
Congratulations: you are paracorrect about the supernatural.
*"If there were nobody listening to gods anymore, there would be nothing left for us to do,...
... then to finally start listening to each other."
*As any gamer will tell you: God-mode is a cheat-code.
Last edited by Jutter on Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 3811
Local time: 8:53 PM
Location: Cin City, OH!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| ManicParroT wrote: | | So how is going off the gold standard such a huge problem? It seems that no country can really increase it's purchasing power by printing more money, because the money will be worth less. Which fixes things neatly. Or am I missing something else, some other major objection to moving off the gold standard? |
It's not really that big of a deal when considering the economy as a whole, just that inflation and deflation create big winners and big losers, and neither is much of an issue on a gold standard, where there are fewer fluctuations. In the doubling example, people with money already in the bank would be screwed big time, while people who had their money in gold or in foreign banks might actually come out ahead (and they at least wouldn't be totally screwed like everyone else). Also, fiat currency is highly dependent on the faith the populace puts in its government. Plenty of countries have had situations where foreign currency was/is the most important unit of account. The tradeoff is that monetary policy can no longer be used to try to smooth out recessions under a gold standard.
With regard to the big coin, I think that having the coin worth the value printed on it in terms of gold at the time of issue would make it more attractive to the types that would want to own that sort of thing, though its rarity is likely to make it worth more than the value of the gold itself anyway. |
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FlatEarth1024
Hey, Everybody!
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4152
Local time: 10:53 AM
Location: Dippin' my balls in it.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | | With regard to the big coin, I think that having the coin worth the value printed on it in terms of gold at the time of issue would make it more attractive to the types that would want to own that sort of thing, though its rarity is likely to make it worth more than the value of the gold itself anyway. |
| Article wrote: | | The federal cabinet passed an order earlier this month at the recommendation of the transport minister allowing the mint to stamp out the non-circulation coins. |
I agree. Once you slice through all the numismatics and economics of it, what you're really left with is simply either a museum piece or a collector's item. The coin will be worth $1,000,000 at the time of minting, but who can predict value as the years go by? There are several US coins (Walking Liberty, Indian Head, wheat penny) that have value in excess of their printed amount.
So the value varies in relation to the who is assigning said value. An Indian Head is worth a 5 bucks (?) to a collector for its rarity, 76 cents to the US mint for its silver, and 5 cents to Pops down at the newsstand to buy a racing form. So its ACTUAL value is moot. That is determined by whoever is holding it and the purpose of its use.
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Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 4:53 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | | This has already been addressed by BAAWA to some extent, but the ignorance in this post would be shocking, if my expectations for an sjc post weren't lowered to the extent that they already are. |
| sjc wrote: | | KnoB is on my ignore list, just like you are now. |
Ignore is fine if done for the right reasons--like getting rid of spammers and trolls. However, this type of ignore is simply cowardly. I would hope that all people who view this look upon sjc and determine that his cowardice renders him unworthy of talking to. What he's done is no different than someone like Bill O'Reilly hanging up on someone for mentioning Keith Olberman. Please think about if you really want to talk to someone who so willfully blinds himself.
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Sal1981 wrote: | | Why make it out from gold? They should use a more precious metal, like palladium. |
Because gold is a little more easy to come by. Remember: money isn't just about value, but use and accessability. Palladium is so rare that to use it as money would not work.
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ManicParroT wrote: | Ok, I'm going to slowly grope my way through this, and see if I can come to some kind of grip on what's happening. Stop me if I'm wrong here.
As I understand it, back in the day, money was backed by gold or silver. i.e, one dollar was worth X amount of silver. You would always get X amount of silver for your dollar, because for every dollar the govt. issued, they had to have X amount of silver. OR, the dollar itself WAS X amount of silver, which comes to the same thing. |
Yes. The US dollar was defined as 1/20 oz of gold, and it was also a certain weight of silver, thus also fixing an exchange rate between gold and silver.
| ManicParroT wrote: | | Some governments moved away from this, for reasons that I'm not clear on. As a result, Gershwin's law meant that all the "good" money (which was backed by silver or gold) got displaced by fiat currency (which is backed by the govt, and nothing else). Now, all we have are fiat currencies. |
Mostly, yes. And the reason that Gresham's Law works is that it allows people to use something that really isn't worth what it's claimed to be worth to purchase things, thus allowing them to save those specie which are really worth something. The bad money is used in place of the good, which is either stored--or usually confiscated by the government.
| ManicParroT wrote: | | However, as Eyedunno said, if a govt. prints more money, inflation kicks in as well as international monetary trading, meaning that the currency drops in value. If a govt doubles the amount of money it prints, the value of the money halves. That sort of thing. Right? |
Yes, the purchasing power of money will decrease until you have a crash or hyperinflation, such as what is being seen in Zimbabwe (currently running at about 1200% PER MONTH).
| ManicParroT wrote: | | So how is going off the gold standard such a huge problem? It seems that no country can really increase it's purchasing power by printing more money, because the money will be worth less. Which fixes things neatly. Or am I missing something else, some other major objection to moving off the gold standard? |
The problem is in credit expansion and fraud. Technically, all frac-reserve setups are fraudulent (I say this because I've yet to see a full-reserve fiat currency, since that's really self-contradictory), as they allow multiple claims to the same money. Also, with the expansion of the money supply comes the artificial lowering of interest rates, which causes erroneous signals to propagate through the market. Two things can result: 1. a crash. 2. hyperinflation. We saw 1. during the late 1920s through the 1930s. We also saw 2. in the 1920s and 1930s in Weimar Germany, as well as in places like Poland, Hungary, and as I said, currently in Zimbabwe.
The upshot is that whole boom/bust cycle normally attributed to "capitalism" is in actuality a direct result of fiat currency and government meddling into the money supply. It's not endemic to capitalism at all.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 4:53 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | When gold coins were common currency gold was around $32 an oz. |
Depends on the country. As I stated, it was $20/oz for the US, since the dollar was defined as 1/20 oz of gold. There was no "free-float" for the currency. By comparison, the British pound was rougly 1/5 or 1/4 oz of gold (I forget which at the moment and I don't feel like looking it up). Thus, 1oz of gold was 4 or 5 pounds. This also fixed the pound/dollar exchange rate at 4:1 or 5:1.
| sjc wrote: | | Now it is around $670US an oz. |
Which means that the purchasing power of the dollar has fallen quite dramatically, hasn't it? Think that might have something to do with the fact of fiat currency? Nah--that's a real economic concept, and could never occur to you.
| sjc wrote: | | A coin can only ever be spend for the denomination on it no matter how much metal is in it. |
Which is one of the reasons why Gresham's Law works: debase the coin with a cheaper metal and it will be spent vs. the more valuable one.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 4:53 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | The problem is that the value of the coin is tied to its weight. |
| caseagainstfaith wrote: |
US and Canada have been off the gold standard for quite a while now... |
| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | I'm not seeing how that makes a difference. |
| caseagainstfaith wrote: | | Obviously, there is something that is alluding me. But, my point was, it used to be that the monetary value of a coin was directly tied to the amount of precious metal it had, but not anymore. (I think, I confess to not being any expert on currency.) But, I can say that I am pretty sure that a nickel doesn't weigh five times as much as a penny, or a dime twice as much as the nickel, or a dollar coin or dollar bill weigh ten times as much as a dime, etc. |
I see what you're getting at now, but the fact would remain that if a small coin is imprinted at $1 million, that will be used in place of something that really does have a value of $1 million. This is Gresham's Law.
_________________
aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" |
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