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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Jutter wrote: | I asume that's a protocol rather than a 'law' as in 'natural law'.
Are you suggesting it would be impossible to make an exception for pragmatic reasons. It works -like I said- for paper money. Would it help if they called it a zoin in stead if a coin, and made it out of plastic? |
Plus, there is of course when the value of the metal it is made of changes drastically. Take for example a silver dollar. No matter how much the price of silver changes you can only ever legally spend it for a dollar's worth of merchandise even if the silver in it is worth much more than a dollar. I think that is is one reason why they went off of the gold standard as well. It wasn't really all that stable anymore.
Debit cards are made of plastic and they represent "virtual" money. And the newer ones with a chip on them, that store the amount, are even more so.
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America is not worth the effort anymore. RIP. It was suicide. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 10:01 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Jutter wrote: | I asume that's a protocol rather than a 'law' as in 'natural law'.
Are you suggesting it would be impossible to make an exception for pragmatic reasons. It works -like I said- for paper money. Would it help if they called it a zoin in stead if a coin, and made it out of plastic? |
| sjc wrote: | | Plus, there is of course when the value of the metal it is made of changes drastically. |
Everyone knows that things only have the value the government says they do, silly.
| sjc wrote: | | Take for example a silver dollar. No matter how much the price of silver changes you can only ever legally spend it for a dollar's worth of merchandise even if the silver in it is worth much more than a dollar. |
Worth...according to whom?
| sjc wrote: | | I think that is is one reason why they went off of the gold standard as well. It wasn't really all that stable anymore. |
Thus showing how little you know about money.
| sjc wrote: | | Debit cards are made of plastic and they represent "virtual" money. And the newer ones with a chip on them, that store the amount, are even more so. |
Thus showing how little you understand claim transactions.
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 3811
Local time: 2:01 AM
Location: Cin City, OH!
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | Jutter wrote: | I asume that's a protocol rather than a 'law' as in 'natural law'.
Are you suggesting it would be impossible to make an exception for pragmatic reasons. It works -like I said- for paper money. Would it help if they called it a zoin in stead if a coin, and made it out of plastic? |
Plus, there is of course when the value of the metal it is made of changes drastically. Take for example a silver dollar. No matter how much the price of silver changes you can only ever legally spend it for a dollar's worth of merchandise even if the silver in it is worth much more than a dollar. I think that is is one reason why they went off of the gold standard as well. It wasn't really all that stable anymore.
Debit cards are made of plastic and they represent "virtual" money. And the newer ones with a chip on them, that store the amount, are even more so. |
This has already been addressed by BAAWA to some extent, but the ignorance in this post would be shocking, if my expectations for an sjc post weren't lowered to the extent that they already are.
Anyway, while it's true that the value of money is determined by the people who use it, it's a complex social phenomenon, and still determined by laws of supply and demand. If Canuckistan decided tomorrow that it was going to double the supply of fiat currency over the course of a few weeks, the amount a single Canadian dollar would buy would drop to approximately half of its current value (and probably pretty quickly too, as it would be a pretty radical action that would attract a lot of attention). On the other hand, the value of gold cannot be set so arbitrarily. Occasionally, new reserves are found, but that's nothing compared to governments' continual manipulation of fiat currency supplies (almost always increasing said supplies).
If you'd asked someone 100 years ago how much, say, wheat a dollar would buy in twenty years, that person would almost certainly say "about the same amount it does today," or "maybe a little more than it buys today" if they expected wheat production to improve. The reason they went off the gold standard had nothing to do with stability, as gold was and still is much more stable in value than any paper currency (other than gold certificates, but that goes without saying). They went off the gold standard in part so they could more freely manipulate the money supply as part of macroeconomic policy.
As for the silver thing, a dollar was originally a set weight of silver, but on the gold standard, the value of silver tended to rise and fall. But realize that's in relation to gold, not in relation to some arbitrary standard of what a dollar is. |
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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | | This has already been addressed by BAAWA to some extent, but the ignorance in this post would be shocking, if my expectations for an sjc post weren't lowered to the extent that they already are. |
KnoB is on my ignore list, just like you are now.
ATHEIST FORUMS RULES
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cheapsuprise
disgraced, in exile.
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 7248
Local time: 8:01 AM
Location: Next door.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Jutter wrote: | | Would it help if they called it a zoin in stead if a coin, and made it out of plastic? |
LOL... What a cool idea... A ZOIN...
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"-- Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than
feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to
be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it
is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be
dispensed with."-- Niccolò Machiavelli |
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cheapsuprise
disgraced, in exile.
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 7248
Local time: 8:01 AM
Location: Next door.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Why don't you place that link in your sig SJC? By that post some one might get the idea that some rule has been broken in this thread, which is not the case.
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"-- Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than
feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to
be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it
is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be
dispensed with."-- Niccolò Machiavelli |
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Sal1981
Do you hear me now?
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 2799
Local time: 4:01 PM
Location: Behind the computer
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Why make it out from gold? They should use a more precious metal, like palladium.
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"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman
"Why not just make your null hypothesis be that..." - Philosophos |
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 6674
Local time: 5:01 PM
Location: Den Helder, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Bottom line, technicly speaking arrangements can be made as long as the regarding parties can come to an agreement, so ultimately there's no reason why a million dollar token absolutely must be treated the same as a 'conventional' coin, thus end up being humongous and superheavy. It is of course possible that establishing such agreements would be so labersome that the jumbo-coin would ultimately be the least bothersome solution, but considering the probable dimensions/weight of the million-dollar-coin we'd be talking some serious red tape.
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~ Let us be reasonable ~
Congratulations: you are paracorrect about the supernatural.
*"If there were nobody listening to gods anymore, there would be nothing left for us to do,...
... then to finally start listening to each other."
*As any gamer will tell you: God-mode is a cheat-code. |
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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| cheapsuprise wrote: | | Why don't you place that link in your sig SJC? By that post some one might get the idea that some rule has been broken in this thread, which is not the case. |
He broke this rule. 'With great freedom comes great responsibility. This realm is yours, and hopefully the posters here will make the most of it.' What he said was irresponsible and irrelevant.
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Jutter
Quixotic Cloggy
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 6674
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Location: Den Helder, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | | This has already been addressed by BAAWA to some extent, but the ignorance in this post would be shocking, if my expectations for an sjc post weren't lowered to the extent that they already are. |
I'm sorry to say snide remarks like that take the shine of your posts, as long as we're on the subject of lowering expectations.
[Modhat on]SJC We ban people for:
1. threats.
2. spam.
3. proselytizing.
4. sock puppets.
and that's where our penal activities end.
But to offer some help, above is an example of how such issues can be dealt with gracefully, should compulsion somehow prevent deviant silence.[/modhat off]
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~ Let us be reasonable ~
Congratulations: you are paracorrect about the supernatural.
*"If there were nobody listening to gods anymore, there would be nothing left for us to do,...
... then to finally start listening to each other."
*As any gamer will tell you: God-mode is a cheat-code. |
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cheapsuprise
disgraced, in exile.
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 7248
Local time: 8:01 AM
Location: Next door.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | cheapsuprise wrote: | | Why don't you place that link in your sig SJC? By that post some one might get the idea that some rule has been broken in this thread, which is not the case. |
He broke this rule. 'With great freedom comes great responsibility. This realm is yours, and hopefully the posters here will make the most of it.' What he said was irresponsible and irrelevant. |
That's not a rule. That is a CLOSEING REMARK.
The rules are numbered, and there are only 4 of them.
You know this. Stop acting like a petulant child.
_________________
"-- Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than
feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to
be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it
is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be
dispensed with."-- Niccolò Machiavelli |
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ManicParroT
Royal Citizen
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 366
Local time: 2:01 AM
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I'm going to slowly grope my way through this, and see if I can come to some kind of grip on what's happening. Stop me if I'm wrong here.
As I understand it, back in the day, money was backed by gold or silver. i.e, one dollar was worth X amount of silver. You would always get X amount of silver for your dollar, because for every dollar the govt. issued, they had to have X amount of silver. OR, the dollar itself WAS X amount of silver, which comes to the same thing.
Some governments moved away from this, for reasons that I'm not clear on. As a result, Gershwin's law meant that all the "good" money (which was backed by silver or gold) got displaced by fiat currency (which is backed by the govt, and nothing else). Now, all we have are fiat currencies.
However, as Eyedunno said, if a govt. prints more money, inflation kicks in as well as international monetary trading, meaning that the currency drops in value. If a govt doubles the amount of money it prints, the value of the money halves. That sort of thing. Right?
So how is going off the gold standard such a huge problem? It seems that no country can really increase it's purchasing power by printing more money, because the money will be worth less. Which fixes things neatly. Or am I missing something else, some other major objection to moving off the gold standard? |
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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1603
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| cheapsuprise wrote: | | You know this. Stop acting like a petulant child. |
Put me on your ignore list.
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America is not worth the effort anymore. RIP. It was suicide. |
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cheapsuprise
disgraced, in exile.
Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Posts: 7248
Local time: 8:01 AM
Location: Next door.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| sjc wrote: | | cheapsuprise wrote: | | You know this. Stop acting like a petulant child. |
Put me on your ignore list. |
Nope. Take some personal responsibility, or shut the fuck up.
I am sick and tired of your bitching. No one forces you to participate here.
You have paved your own way here, so DEAL WITH IT.
_________________
"-- Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than
feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to
be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it
is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be
dispensed with."-- Niccolò Machiavelli |
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sjc
P.I.T.A.
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 1603
Local time: 12:01 PM
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ManicParroT wrote: | Ok, I'm going to slowly grope my way through this, and see if I can come to some kind of grip on what's happening. Stop me if I'm wrong here.
As I understand it, back in the day, money was backed by gold or silver. i.e, one dollar was worth X amount of silver. You would always get X amount of silver for your dollar, because for every dollar the govt. issued, they had to have X amount of silver. OR, the dollar itself WAS X amount of silver, which comes to the same thing.
Some governments moved away from this, for reasons that I'm not clear on. As a result, Gershwin's law meant that all the "good" money (which was backed by silver or gold) got displaced by fiat currency (which is backed by the govt, and nothing else). Now, all we have are fiat currencies.
However, as Eyedunno said, if a govt. prints more money, inflation kicks in as well as international monetary trading, meaning that the currency drops in value. If a govt doubles the amount of money it prints, the value of the money halves. That sort of thing. Right?
So how is going off the gold standard such a huge problem? It seems that no country can really increase it's purchasing power by printing more money, because the money will be worth less. Which fixes things neatly. Or am I missing something else, some other major objection to moving off the gold standard? |
When gold coins were common currency gold was around $32 an oz. Now it is around $670US an oz. A coin can only ever be spend for the denomination on it no matter how much metal is in it. Dimes used to be made of silver as well until the silver get too valuable, now they are made of a nickel/copper alloy, the same as 5 cent pieces. Though, it now costs 7 cents to make a nickel. Hell, pennies are no longer made primarily out of copper because it got to cost 2 cents to make one penny, now they are made from a zinc(97.5% core) /copper(2.5% plating) alloy.
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America is not worth the effort anymore. RIP. It was suicide. |
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